Brian,
  You said"The only ones who profit(from the war) are Mr Bush and the defence industry."I am surprised by your conclusion. How do you think of those average Iraqis who fired to the sky hearing SD's capture? How do you think of the free Iraq football players that no longer feared to be strapped by KUSAI and UDA?
  Don't make conclusion too early,Please.

Edited by author 09-15-2004 05:45 AM
Richard:

you wrote:
"Don't make conclusion too early,Please."

Right. There are average Iraqis who were happy that SH is gone. There are many average Iraqis dead or wounded, there will be more dead and wounded: average Iraqis, US soldiers and others. You just have to watch the daily news. You can't stop this through military actions. This topic is ironically true: we're on a "road to nowhere".

To quote one of the soccer players from Iraq who played in Athens: "If I were at home in Falluja, I would fight the Americans." Think about it: why?

The picture is much more complex than joe joe (and you?) like it. It's not "Good against Evil". Its "ignorance against an open mind". And you will find both on both "sides" [I don't like this word].

BBC's headline of today:

Iraq war illegal, says Annan
 
The UN's Kofi Annan tells the BBC the US-led invasion of Iraq was illegal and contravened the UN charter.

U tell me about UN charter?
hehe, UN has already turned herself into an umbrella of protection of the dictatorship.US,UK,and those Anglo-Saxon nations are the only hope of the whole world.Maybe ps those Eastern Europe countries.

Brian -

You clearly show that you are an intelligent person who appreciates complexities, but you are wrong. This is indeed Good versus Evil.

Although it is of course unfortunate that innocent people will die in this war, you fail to consider the many, many more innocent people who would die if we failed to prevent these state-sponsored terrorists from attacking our cities.

And by the way, self-defense is a sovereign right. While the U.N. recognizes this right, it does not confer it.

joe joe -

thanks for calling me an "intelligent person". I guess you really believe that it is "Good" vs "Evil": welcome to the Middle Ages.

How many of the hijackers from 9/11 were from Iraq? You have a very weird understanding of "self-defense" I must say. Something like: "Shoot the guy, he might attack me later." It would be funny if no real people would die.

The world isn't a computer game.

 Brian,
   Let’s make your argument clearly:
  1 ) In previous debate, You admitted SH was terrorist himself, he hijacked Iraqis.
  2 ) You said It was right to get rid of a terrorist and rescue the hostage-Iraqis.
  3) You oppose the war only because it caused hostages die, not because you are with SH’s side. If the war could only killed one person -SH and keep every Iraqis safe. I think you will be satisfied and support it.
   In fact, the whole things should have the chance to go with your preferable way: Before the war broke out, SH was offered an alternative-quit from his presidency and exile, he rebuffed. FBI has tried many times to assassinate SH and failed. Like any other terrorist and hijacker, SH would not give up and release the hostage easily. Now, if you were president of US, facing a dilemma, one is rescue the hostage, taking risk of endangering some, the other is just wait, doing nothing, comforting yourself: “at least, those hostage were killed by SH, not by me!” which way you should go? Fortunately, you were not Bush, you need not to make choice. While Mr Bush must, for US citizen voted him to make decision. He made a right and hard decision, which those “intelligent and open minded person” will never have the courage and sense of commitment to make.

Richard,

in an older post you had a typo: "UN has already turned herself into an umbrella of protection of the dictatorship." I'm sure you meant "US" instead of "UN".

And tell me why the hostages now fight the US (SH is gone now). You use strange examples. With this kind of logic I guess there's a long list of nations who are next on Bush's list: Iran, North Korea, Cuba... and how about France (they really never understood the meaning of liberty) :)) But then, maybe they don't need liberty - because they've got no oil.

  In fact, I really think those all dictator regimes should be overthrowed, no matter by inside or outside forces. I should remind you that it's not US freed the Iraqis in this war,but Iraqis freed themselves,under the help of the US.
  As for the "hostages fighting the US.", Could you tell me in all Iraqis people,how many fight the US?
  Brian,I am very puzelled by your attitude towards your own army.I respect them and their cause.They sacrified their own lives for those poor people,just as they did 50 years ago in France,40 years ago in Korea.When they only wait and do nothing, just as 50 years ago in china mainland, they left thousands of poor chinese into the hand of Communists.Did you have any experience living in an Communist Country?:)))

Sorry, Richard, but you live in a dream-world. It's not true that the Iraqis freed themselves. Its was an invasion same style as the USSR did in Afghanistan. Of course I don't know the exact number of how many Iraqis fight the US in Iraq. But let me ask you: do you watch the news once in a while? These are not just a couple of terrorists. And I'm really shocked how naive you are. Do you really think it was about "freedom" in Korea and France? And how about Vietnam? Please... you can't really believe this. Its about political interests, its about the economy, its about money. Maybe its because you live or lived in a communist country that you think that outside of this country everything is better.

  You said US fought not for freedom,but for interest and money in France and Korea.I am astonished to hear that. You are insulting those brave men and women.You should face to face with those WWII veterans and told them,"You are not hero, you fight only for economy and money!".
  Fine,Let's stop this debate.I am very happy to speak with you.God bless you.

Edited by author 09-21-2004 07:19 PM
Richard,

believe me, some of the veterans know this by now. They are less astonished than you are. How childish people can be believing in heros, in Good and Evil. There was an age of enlightenment but some people missed it obviously.

Brian -

I pity you.
But I still thank the military for protecting you.

Thank you for fighting for our freedom and theirs.