Closing this topic due to a rash of QuickTopic spam (though the admins do seem to be cleaning it up speedily). Feel free to contact me via email.

Here's another update. The introduction to Debian I got through Knoppix, and my preference for Gnome, inevitably led me to Ubuntu, which is now my favorite open source OS distribution for desktop users.

FWIW here's a status update: the $60 computer is now running Debian Linux, which I got sucked into via a Knoppix CD. Debian is pretty cool... for Linux. I also have migrated ffrom KDE to Gnome -- I miss a couple of KDE's features (network transparency and Klipper), but my delicate Mac sensibilities just couldn't take all the busyness anymore; it can't be just "skinned" away.

And I never did get that Turtle Beach sound card to work!

1.If you want Java and Flash installed easily by default try SuSE.
2.There are Mac Linux distro and Linux is more comptible with different hardware than FreeBSD.
3.I also had a quick pick at KDE 3.2 and it looks awesome, gotta give it a shot when it's released.

IF you'll happen to try out a Linux distro, I'd heavily suggest trying out Gentoo, since you're familiar with Ports, you'll just _love_ Portage in Gentoo - basically it's Ports which can handle dependancies and has a lot of other very nice options.

Really, I'm not doing this as a Gentoo zealot, I really believe in freedom of choice. I just thought you might be interested in reading a thing or two about it, since you mention Ports' lack of dependancy-management.

linkies:
http://www.gentoo.org
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/portage-user.xml

Actually, KDE can run on top of Mac OSX too. One of my friends showed me his iBook running KDE, all thanks to the portable nature of X11

You can right-click Terminal.app in OS X to bring up a list of bookmarks for SSH, telnet, SFTP, etc...

Edited by author 12-04-2003 05:04 AM
I installed Virtual PC 6.1 under MacOS X, so I could use Windows 2000 and Office 2000 for work. I also plan to use VPC 6.1 to run Linux.

For your information, I also plan to run Linux on VPC 6.1 since it allows Macs to run multi-platforms.

Best Regards,
George Lien
georgelien@email.com

Tom: KDE can be configured to put the menu bar at the top of the screen, Mac-style. Personally, I find that the Mac style just ensures that the menu is always maximally far away from my mouse pointer, which means more annoying mousing, but that's a matter of personal taste.

I've tried KDE on OS X, but AFAICT it's not ready for prime time. I've never managed to boot a complete KDE session (kwin window manager) successfully, although I use Konsole as my main terminal, since Terminal.app doesn't support tabs, iTerm is painfully slow, and glTerm isn't free. I'd really like to see a successful native port of KDE to OS X, but I don't know if anybody's really working on it.

Photoshop isn't an issue for me -- I'm a programmer.

I switched to OS X from Linux and I have to say I'm not always sure I made the right decision.

What I gained: The hardware Just Works (almost -- my bog-standard USB 2.0 hub doesn't work). My PowerBook 15" is the Porsche of laptops -- the hardware is awesome. Moreover, hardware I buy is mostly supported by the vendor on OS X. I can play games and work in the same OS. I have never needed to recompile the kernel. iTunes is very nice.

What I lost: KDE is a more powerful UI. You can use the keyboard *or* mouse with ease. You have lots of useful configuration options. Apple gives you only a handful of options that tend to be insufficient for a power user. Konqueror is a better browser than Safari, though Safari is quicker and the interface is slicker. KMail is more powerful than Mail.app. Apple's X11 is buggy. It was *nice* to use an OS where the OS developers would actually answer your questions and you could follow their work on a day-to-day basis. It was *nice* to be part of a community that didn't believe in shareware. When configured correctly, Freetype does font smoothing better than OS X! There's more, but I don't want to rant too much.

Writing this has made me realize how much I miss Linux... :-) I wish I could install YDL without wiping and reinstalling OS X...

truhe: You've got it backwards. It's easy to mount ftp servers, smb shares, and tons of other remote filesystems under linux, and they will work with any application. KDE just makes it even *easier*, providing you with a unified interface to all file operations whether they're local or remote files, and you don't have to bother to mount the remote filesystem.

Great article. However, you didn't address one of my main gripes about any of the Linux variants -- they follow the "brain dead" Microsoft approach of ataching the menu bar to the file, rather than running it accross the top like Apple has since the very first Mac. It may be just my personal preference, but I find the Mac menu system to be far superior. I tend to have upwards of ten apps open at any one time...and when each window has its own menu it get confusing fast. With the Mac I always know wherre the correct menu is -- with the other systems, I often find myself clicking on the wrong menu -- attached to a different file. Then I have to fix the file I just changed -- then locate the correct window an apply my changes. This alone keeps me using and loving the Mac. Then again, Adobe Photshop isn't available for Linux, either. I don't want to start any flame wars, but Adobe's interface is simply superior to anything else I've used. The Gimp is a great effort, but for all out productivity -- I'm afraid theat Photoshop is far superior.
I still enjoyed your article. Anyone tried running KDE in Apple's X11 under OS X?

You gave me the confidence to give this a try sometime. I might go with Lindows though, as it seems they have tried to make it "just work" out of the box. The only thing there is, the business model becomes more like .net and .Mac - they prefer users to "subscribe" to a download service.

Alternatively, I might install YDL (with KDE) on an older Power Mac I have sitting around.

You don't seem to realise that Linux is available for PowerPC machines too. I'm using KDE on an ibook right now. And... yes, it's nicer :)

the file system structure of mac os x is more network transparent than kde. kde of course has a very nice implementation, but it only works for kde apps. on mac os x servers like an ftp-server gets mounted directly into the file system and can be used by any application (carbon, cocoa, classic, unix...). the apps only sees a normal directory and normal files and behaves like these files are local files.

but, and it's a big but, while in theory this is really great and much better than the kde thing in praxis apple failed to fully implement it. just take ftp... it gets mounted, every app can read but no app except ones running as root can write to it...

Just goes to show how good KDE is. The main gripes he has, Java and Flash, aren't even KDE issues, they are FreeBSD issues. KDE rocks, and realistically is does compare well against OSX. Gnome is getting better as well, but its still more like the KDE 2.x series verses where KDE is now with 3.x. Either way if your willing to go opensource you won't be wanting for a quality desktop environment.

Edited by author 12-03-2003 02:01 PM
Re shortcuts -- KDE apps allow you to set shortcuts from within the application itself, and they take effect immediately. Also, to use Apple's shortcut feature, you have to type (!) the exact text of the menu item in question.

I leave #17 to somebody who has actually installed KDE on OS X, but it wouldn't be much use if the answers weren't Yes and Yes. I doubt you can drag files between the Finder and Konqueror, though.

If you use the KDE desktop on OS X, does it actually exist in a window and do you get seamless integration with OS X's file system?

Edited by author 12-03-2003 12:37 PM
One point I caught: OS X Panther does allow you to set Application shortcuts now. Preferences-Keyboard Shortcuts (That's not too buried, is it?)

Apple's help:

Keyboard shortcuts allow you to quickly perform tasks by pressing keys on the keyboard. You can assign your own keyboard shortcuts to perform menu commands in any Mac OS X application or in the Finder. This may be useful if, for example, one of the "global" shortcuts, which works the same in most applications, is used by one application for a different purpose. In this case, you can assign it a different key combination.

When you restart the application, the new shortcut appears in the application's menu. (italics mine)

If you want to go back to the default application shortcuts, click Restore Defaults. This returns all the keyboard shortcuts to their original key combinations.

Thanks for all the replies and pointers.

I actually have used Desktop Manager (wsmanager), but neglected to mention it in the piece; since my rule is When In Doubt, Go Stock, I'm seeing how far Exposé goes in addressing screen management issues.

I've used PTHPasteboard, but right now it's in limbo, with no available download, as PTH has been absorbed into You Software.

Re Freetype, I did have it installed and with the right fonts (e.g. Bitstream Vera) type looked very nice.

And thanks for all the e-mail telling me how to configure my sound card :)

What a great article. My Mac hardware is getting a bit long in the tooth these days, and I've converted my boxes to KDE and Yellow Dog Linux. I really like OS X, but KDE is a great place to get work done.

I understand your reasons for choosing Free BSD, but you might have enjoyed a more convenient transition pulling one of the cushy boxed Linux distros. I run KDE on SUSE 9.0 on my x86 boxes. It's nice to start the DVD-based install and have everything "just working" an hour later. SUSE's installer would also have set up your CF reader and printer with little fuss, and the fonts look great.

If you want a similar look-and-feel to OS X, try MOSFET's "Liquid" theme for KDE. Nice drop shadows, semi-transparent menus, and widgets that will make Mac users feel more at home.

Great to see Linux/BSD and Mac folks getting along. Both platforms have a lot to offer.

This is a very objective and fair review. Since so many people get into emotionally heated debates about their favorites OS (especially among Mac, Linux, and Unix users), it's refreshing to read something so balanced. I myself use Debian GNU/Linux most of the time, though some of my friends have Apple computers with OS X. It's nice for once not to be harangued by a Mac user, but to get a balanced review of FreeBSD/KDE with both positive and negative comparisons to OS X.

along with Just works: http://wsmanager.sourceforge.net/ as virtual desktop manager, I use http://www.pth.com/PTHPasteboard/ which I imagine has similar functionality to Klipper?

Edited by author 12-02-2003 10:48 PM
Thanks for a very balanced and insightful piece. I myself am not an expert, but can get around my KDE (Mandrake Linux) box quite well. Still, I have to admit I had to try out a couple features you pointed out, i.e, pasting text directly into a new file.
I agree that Konqueror is a standout. It was interesting, though, to hear you as a devout Mac user give some nice praise to the PDF printing and programmable keys of KDE.
I am also grateful for the fine contributions the safari folks have been making back to KDE. Thanks again.

FreeBSD has a (IMHO well deserved) reputation for being stabler and more secure than most (all?) popular Linux distributions. But it tends to be harder to install and possibly administer for the first-time user than most mainstream Linux distros (with the possible exception of Debian). Since the author is simply comparing MacOS with the GUI subsytem that is KDE, she would have come off with a more favorable impression if he installed something like Redhat 9.0 or its successor Fedora Core 1.

I myself hate GUI adminstration tools. But during my week or two fling with Redhat 9.0, I was actually able to do system configuration without once seeing the command prompt. Oh sure, it's not a *BSD. But it's Unix'y enough, especially when you don't have to do commandline stuff.

Wonderful free Virtual Desktop manager ... very stable. Just works: http://wsmanager.sourceforge.net/

You can use KDE on OS X. It works just fine and I'm glad since I can't stand Finder.

You are also correct to complain about FreeBSD's font rendering. But this is because they don't configure it correctly. If you go to freetype.org, you can download the source. Just compile it and your fonts will be BETTER than on OSX.

nice review. i have debian on my desktop and don't find recompiling kernels all that hard, i run kde aswell but i recently got an iBook G4 and i love it. it's cool to find the reverse perspective.

There is a 'simple' way to add sound to your FreeBSD server.
You can load the snd_pcm module, either during boot or while multiuser. Not the simplest way, but at least you don't have to recompile. Be aware that not all sound apps will work, but the KDE arts sound server will work as will KDE's sound apps.

I guess it isn't loaded by default because FreeBSD is intended to be a server, and why would a server need sound? :)

Edited by author 12-02-2003 06:14 PM
Jay -- you're right! Thanks for the correction. My basic points stands, though -- it's better just to have a full-featured file manager that can work with remote servers. (By the way, I am chagrined to report that RBrowser also allows remote-host dragging. However, neither it nor Transmit nor Interarchy allow dragging files from one remote host to another.)

Great article. I am a huge KDE fan, and I have zero complains and only praise for you being fair.

I would add, that the problems and hiccups you allude to are almost all addressed in KDE 3.2, coming by January. We are starting to push back on the alpha quality stuff, and keep it out of the releases, but some of those pieces are needed, because they are the only thing doing that certain task.

Thanks,
B

You've been able to drag files around in remote view in Panic's Transmit for a long long time.

Wonderful piece, Paul. Good depth and helpful analysis. I've been struggling with the issue of whether to switch my life from OS X to Lindows or Linux or FreeBSD and your review gave me lots more to think about.

BTW, there are a couple of virtual desktop tools out for OS X. Check out this discussion: http://www.macobserver.com/columns/macgadget/2003/20030113.shtml

I installed one of them for a while, lost it during a system upgrade or some such nonsense, and haven't re-installed it. But I may now. I like to have a separate desktop for each "role" I play during any given day.

Thanks for sharing.

(BTW, don't know what tool you're using for your blog but check out Web Crossing (http://www.webcrossing.com). It has built-in discussion board functionality, comments, trackback, the whole nine. You can see it at my blog, http://www.eclecticity.com.)

For discussion of my quasi-review as noted on FA:OSX