David,

You wrote: "ABA isn't really the thing that works.... if ABA has ever worked, it is very likely that the main factor in the success of it is the way that the therapist has been with the kid in question."

Absolutely! I believe [on the basis of my own clinical practice with autistics for 28 years] that the systematic provision of structure and routine to autistic children allows them to learn systematically. [Note the word "allows" as distinct from "causes".] How does this relate to ABA and other "methods"? Simple, parents embarking on an ABA program are part of the setting in which their child operates - in many case the autistic child is unable to distinguish his parents from any other part of the stimulus setting. The required application of systematic ABA treatments to the child automatically requires that the child's parents organise themselves as part of the process. Thus the autistic child is suddenly presented with a consistent set of interactions by the parents - their behaviour necessarily becomes ordered - and can then learn the operating rules of the presenting persons. Ever noticed how quickly autistic children, even severely intellectually impaired children, learn to use mechanical devices, computers, video players which have a discrete and constant set of operational rules? [Learning is not the problem from the perspective of the autistic child; he knows how to learn.] When NT people are required to operate rather than behave with autistic children, progress, including the development of sets of appropriate reciprocal interaction/communication, is very quick, but there is no change in the nature of the autism. Autism is permanent. Meaningful learned function is simply enabled and allowed.

Well, Michelle, I couldn't actually see any relevance of Schafer's message to anything you had been saying in your article (which on first reading looks bloody excellent!!!!!!). It's almost entirely the same message as on the other thread. I think that maybe HE needs some ABA to teach him about relevance conditions and so on; but then... we know, don't we....?! ABA isn't really the thing that works.... if ABA has ever worked, it is very likely that the main factor in the success of it is the way that the therapist has been with the kid in question. Results like this are coming out of a number of meta-studies. A good source is Dr G E Jones at the University of Birmingham UK: she just finished her PhD on interventions.

As for behaviourism per se.... well, it sucks, to say it bluntly. The thing started out as a physiological investigation into salivation conditioning in dogs (Pavlov), and went through cats (Thorndyke) and into rats and pigeons (Skinner). The idea that one can then make a seriously huge leap of (il)logic and generalise the results of animal studies to humans.... I get queasy thinking about it! There is no reason to suspect that, just because one cannot assess directly a person's cognitions, one does not have to account for them in that person's behaviours! And this is probably the main reason why behaviourism as a "theory" is very largely unsound... besides.... in the early-mid 1970s, there is a paper somewhere that contains a rather obvious "oops, we fucked up" sort of statement from Skinner himself.

Maybe Schafer and Lovaas and that other idiot should have read that before making such claims about the power of behaviourism. Even John Watson had problems proving HIS idea of being able to guide very accurately the development of any child put before him. As far as I can tell from the Little Albert thing, it was probably best NOT to put a child before him!


Mr Schafer, to you I have to say: Grow Up! Be relevant!! Or be bloody quiet!!!

Hello again, Mr Schafer

Perhaps if you could be clearer about in which ways I am being dishonest, I could usefully respond to your concerns.

Also, if you could indicate in exactly which ways you believe my work will harm autistic persons, I believe I could also answer those concerns.

Further, if you have arguments against the accuracy of the present article, I would be happy to answer to them.

I'm not sure what the scientific rationale or validity is of diagnosing persons via the internet, but, Mr Schafer, it is an interesting experience.

Michelle Dawson
naacanada

It is time for some people with apparent Asperger's to stop dishonestly misrepresenting themselves as typical examples of people with autism. Michelle Dawson's apparent high functioning autism looks nothing like my son's low functioning autism. These two forms of autism present themselves quite differently. What may be appropriate treatment and care for someone with one kind of autism just may be a form of abuse to another. There is a major difference between these two kinds of autism and it is about time people with Asperger's stop painting themselves as representative autistics. There is a valid reason for there being a separate name of Aspergers to distinquish it from the rest of autism. Let's be honest about it, please, and use the appropriate terms. Revere, sanctify and worship the wonders and differences of those with Aspergers, if you must. But profoundly disabling autism requires nothing less than a cure. And yes, it is your right to disagree, but don't get in the way of those parents seeking treatments for their severely autistic children.

ABA equals the autistic as a "clockwork orange"

ABA is the opiate of parents of autistic children (with apologies to Karl Marx)

Right on Michelle! Behaviorists want to have it both ways. They want to disassociate themselves from aversives and claim in court hearings in the USA as well as in Canada. and claim without aversives that ABA can make the autistic completely normal. Can ABA make the autistic completely normal? Just ask Noah Greenfeld, Sean Lappin and Dov Shestack. They won't be able to answer you. After intensive ABA they still can't speak

I am a behaviour analyst and I work as a behaviour consultant for children with autism. I love this article. It is thought provoking and a very important statement we (professionals and service providers) need to hear. Thank you for this.

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