Speaking of lists of lists (I'm one of the folks on Danny's original posting), I've automated creation of two, taken from automated exports of normal programs (iTunes and Extensis Portfolio). See 'em here, as well as links to the scripts that do 'em: http://disobey.com/d/lists/

two women i know that seem to get a lot done are heather champ and molly wright steenson. hchamp.com and girlwonder.com respectively.

personally, as a project manager, one key to staying focused and getting things done is to keep a bare desktop and a clean desk. sure, most messy people say they know where everything is, but that's not the point. when you don't have visual distractions and temptations, it's easier to focus on the task at hand.

personality has a LOT to do with it. some people are just born organized. they get off on crossing things off lists. they have lists of lists. can someone learn to be more organized? yes, to some degree, but the real secret is just being born that way.

> I was surprised to see Jon Singer on your list -- I certainly
> consider him brilliant, a true polymath (he's mostly working on
> high-tech ceramics and gamelan music these days) but I never
> thought of him as organized!

Well, it's not just about being organised in a traditional sense. Just being on top of dozens of projects and somehow managing not to have them *all* collapse into chaos is good enough for me to be curious.

Whatever Jon is, he's both an extreme and a very high-functioning example of it.

I agree with Anita - I'm not sure I'd call Singer organized. Prioritized and linked (both mind and manner), but not necessarily organized.

I would add Bruce Schneier of Counterpane (www.counterpane.com), and Fredric Brooks (of Mythical Man Month.)

I was surprised to see Jon Singer on your list -- I certainly consider him brilliant, a true polymath (he's mostly working on high-tech ceramics and gamelan music these days) but I never thought of him as organized!

Neal Stephenson talked a bit about his daily routine, and getting into the "flow state", when he was in Toronto for a book-promotion tour last week. I'll bet he would have some good ideas.

I recommend talking to Chris Kelty <www.kelty.org>, an anthropology prof at Rice who spends a LOT of time working with such geeks.

Another suggestion is to poll the hivemind on alt.hackers, or simply lurk there - many of the hacks posted are about real life, not just code.

I have no suggestions, but if you find anything usefull, PLEASE put it up on the web where we can learn from it. Already I have projects for the next 20-30 years, but not enough time.

Hey you 5 e-mail subscribers -- I just re-edited my last note extensively and tripled its size, and then noticed this note that said the original version had already been e-mail to 5 subscribers. So if you want to see the same version the web-readers are seeing, you'll have to go look on the web.

Edited by author 10-25-2003 07:34 AM
A similar train of thought is that telling yourself that you aren't organized or that you can't remember things, etc., makes it true. Our culture should adopt the belief that they hold in Taiwan -- that describing a bad thing is like a curse and tempts fate, even if you say it in a hypothetical, counterfactual, consequent, or joking way.

Actually I think it goes double for joking. "Ha ha, only serious.". For example, suppose someone named their web site "oblomovka" and made a hilarious comedy essay about how they are disorganized and ineffectual. That would be very amusing! But it would make them more disorganized and ineffectual. That's bad.

So in order to make your self-image and your psychological stance more compatible with an organized and effectual life, I propose two simple rules: 1. Don't say bad things about yourself. 2. Practice. Can't remember something? Don't ask your wife for help -- sit still for a minute and try. Controlled experiments have conclusively demonstrated that this improves memory in humans.

Likewise with all the other things you would like to improve about yourself. Difficulty with spelling? Leave the spell-checker alone for about 3 seconds and do your best, then use the checker to check your work. Find yourself using a word badly when speaking? Repeat the sentence, out loud, with better wording. etc.

P.S. Probably a lot of geeks resist these sorts of fuzzy ideas of mind/body/behavior influence because they've swallowed this Platonic notion that for the mind to be independent of the body and of the physical environment is the most virtuous state. In Gibson's Sprawl trilogy, one of the hackers contemptuously refers to his body as "meat". However, geeks also respect science, and modern science shows conclusively that Plato was full of bullshit. What you eat, when you sleep, what words you say to yourself, what posture you hold, how you move your facial muscles when thinking -- all of these things have measurable and reproduceable effects on how your mind works. Learn to live with it.

P.P.S. I know Plato said "a sound mind in a sound body", but nonetheless his mind/body dichotomy and his praise of untainted mind as virtuous is strongly echoed in the modern hacker culture e.g. "Hackers: Heroes".

So clearly there are some common neurological and psychological patterns that many geeks shares -- attention management/novelty-seeking, etc. Those traits probably lead many geeks to have similar problems in organization and effectiveness.

However, I'm wondering if some of our cherished culture isn't also part of the problem! This culture was written down by Steven Levy in "Hackers: Heroes", and many a young geek (me, I mean) read that book and decided to be the kind of noble hacker who stays up all night hacking, eats randomly and badly, and lives a disorganized life with no administrative practices at all.

A good deal of my self-improvement over the last few years has involved becoming consciously aware of these behaviors and deciding to stop doing them.

Good Easy is my invention. I developed it in the mid-90s and have trained dozens of people on it since.

Part of the system is described in my (free) report on managing incoming e-mail:

Here's the report - PDF file download

Past that, Good Easy encompasses the todo list, calendar, filing system, file formats, photo management, and keyboard shortcuts. I know of no other integrated system like it.

Happy to discuss - (I haven't gotten around to writing down the entire system - but could do a phone call)

-Mark Hurst
mark at goodexperience dot com

Who was the fellow that came up with the "Good, Easy" systems? Seems like they'd be good to check in with.

Alfons:: he's one of the leads for Sylph-claws.

How 'bout Tim Bray?

Seems like you're getting a list of the usual well-known suspects so far.

For some less well known folks from my particular sphere (higher ed central computing organizations) I'd suggest Paul Hill from MIT.

Let me second the recommendation for "Getting Things Done" by David Allen. I don't always follow his entire system, but when things start to break down for me, I can usually quickly recover by going back to his "next actions" and "projects" lists. I'm not an uber-geek, but using Allen's methods, I believe I can work through a lot of tasks quickly without wasting a lot of time. The techniques work great for my work life, but I'm not disciplined/anal enough to apply it to my personal life.