Frankly, I agree with Johann. To get OSX into the enterprise, where it belongs, and to get the PHBs supporting it, what is needed is a quality server. And that means Oracle or Sybase (which exist for OSX, but ar emost often used on big slowarse^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hsolaris servers. For small developers, you want something that rocks. That means Postgres, IMHO. Of course, Apple aren't going to start bundling Sybase, but what they could start bundling is what we used to have in the original DP releases - EOF. A database neutral, enterprise friendly, highly performant, persistence layer. Small developers could develop on the DB of their choice, and those apps could work at the enterprise level when talking to "real' databases. Of course, I live in a dream world, and this will never happen. Apple seem to be happy in their little niche selling user level boxes, and don't care about the enterprise. I just sold a €50K system to a large corp, it could have been developed on OSX in under 5 weeks (and would have been much cheaper for them) but they plumped for Java on Windows. Sigh. Sorry. Random rant.