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As an artist myself I'm all for the extra exposure. Royalties or not.

Listen to these dudes: http://www.cdbaby.com/rivalmenace

/m25

How Muzak differs legally from the DJ scheme is that Muzak has all the requisite license agreements in place and pays royalties from their subscription fees.

Having just got back from gigging and read MR Von L's opinion.
1. WHAT IF B5's using completely different music on each ipod. No multiple copies, just the one legal backup of data (music digitized being considered as data)?
2. What of the non BMI/ASCAP music? is there (legal)exposure for anyone there. This smells more and more like the sampling rights debacle crashing into the "digital music is really just data" mess.
Heaven help us all.

And CUE does rule with good selection and smart friendly staff.

/m20

Muzak doesn't just provide recreations of hits, they also provide streams consisting of original recordings. I work in a store that has music piped in via satellite by Muzak, and it's basically a radio station without commercials.

They provide different channels for different markets; our store has some kind of "slightly hip top 40 rock/dance" thing going on, from Madonna to Granddaddy, while stores in the south have their receivers set to the country stream.

Hard to see how this differs legally from B5.

Funny how people got bent out of shape because you can't "rock the spot" with an iPod... if more DJs paid attention to vibe as B5 apparently does, they'd "rock out" less and focus on proper selection. By the way, Cue is an excellent shop. I'd say it's the best of its kind that I've been to... Respect.

What bothers me is that the copyright regime that makes this business a problem hurts indies more than it helps the majors... plus there's the sheer stupidity of it, in that exposure = sales.

Man, this internet. I love it. Post an article 'bout some dude, within a few days, the dude himself can respond to it.

The dude abides.

Edited by author 06-14-2003 12:54 AM
First off this is crazy...I am a DJ & part owner of Cue Records a small record store in Philly who is trying to expose good music be it, trip hop, hip hop, reggae, Cuban, bossa, afro-beat, house , D&B funk/soul….the music we sell in my store!!! Most independent artists do not get radio airplay and the only way they get heard in Philadelphia (our radio is extremely weak) is in my store or stores like mine or DJ’s buying music & playing it out…I do music design in a few shops and do not charge them. They are more hip cool spots, so hopefully people ask what is playing and find out where to get it …and to get those artists paid. I’m trying to find a way to market good music & sell more of it at my store….to expose people to good music that they don’t hear everyday… The City Paper article kind of blew it up before the project really started. I am doing this for the love of the music not money, I am not putting 50 Cent or Destiny's Child in the mix, and I’m trying to expose noncommercial music. This project has been conceived by a DJ/Independent Record Store Owner not to replace DJ's or steal music, but to turn a wider audience on to better music locally.


Adam Porter

What's interesting to me, re: the Update II info, is that if the same DJ, instead of renting out the Ipod, walked in with the self same Ipod, and the self same songs, and pressed "Play" himself at the start of the evening, stood there all night, and pressed "Stop" at the end, he'd probably be OK legally. But since he's providing a device with copyrighted material, rather than himself playing the same device, he could be in serious trouble.

Edited by author 06-14-2003 12:12 AM
/m15
I think that Muzak is a somewhat different beast, in that they are not simply replaying existing recordings - they actually produce new versions of the songs. In fact, I know that it is extremely lucrative for an artist to have their material used by Muzak - if you could live with the shame, you could do a lot worse as a songwriter than to have your back catalog drenched in syrup and served up in half the supermarkets of America! So, although I'm not sure of the gory details, I do know that Muzak's model is quite legal and above-board.

I think the idea of an iPod is you can copy music onto it, but not supposed to be able to download off of it. Don't have one yet, but I'll get one when the 50gig comes out.

i haven't read the whole thread, but the real question to me is whether the d.j. takes back his only copy of the mp3 set, or allows purchasers to make copies for themselves. spinning in clubs is fine. selling copies is not. there's grey here, because, as pointed out, this is basically a rental service. but i have no problem with that concept, since i see it as something akin to a "first sale," the rights to which are in the initial buyer (ostensibly, here, the d.j.). he could sell his copy, so i think the grey of the rentals comes out in his favor. woe unto him, though, if the club owners are burning their own copies of his sets, and, as pointed out above, especially if he knows they're doing so.

/m15
I believe that Musak has to also have licenses in place.

/m5
Also, the ASCAP/BMI licenses that are in place are often just to play a Radio and the radio station also has licenses in place.

He is going to have serious problems. Of course the RIAA will just take away his life savings and all of his iPods.

Neat idea, bad implementation.

[Background: Had a idea like this but using small custom devices (therefore no one would really want to take it as it has no other use) and the licensing stuff was too much so I dumped the idea... "...yes, that is right Mr. Moose, we need $125,000 in upfront licensing fees..."]

So how does copywrite law interface with traditional DJ-ing? Is is permissible by default to play records in a public setting? Does every nightclub and bar need permission to play pre-recorded music?

This is, in essense if not in details, the business that Muzak is in. (see http://www.muzak.com/)

I strongly suspect that there is a very simple and legal way to be in this business, Muzak's been doing it or variations thereof for decades.

/m11 The film was Real Genius starring Val Kilmer. It's a reverse of an Urban Legend... See http://www.snopes.com/college/admin/attend.htm for more details...

Z.

this is not a new idea...there's a company called activaire that has been doing this legit for a couple years in NYC...they license songs from small labels and distribute comps on devices to small boutiques.

This is an already popular thing in NYC restaurants and clubs. I know someone who builds the iTunes playlists, drops them on the iPod and deliveries them to the business requesting.

Edited by author 06-13-2003 04:28 PM
Now what venues could do is rent space for us to leave our mini recording device so we could record the prerecorded set withou having to spend the night at the club either.

Reminds me of that scene in some college humor movie where the professor tires of teaching his class to a room full of non-attending student's tape recorders so he starts leaving a playing tape recording instead of attending either.

I can piciture the club of the future with an iPod by the turntables and a bunch of minidiscs/mp3/etc recodring on the dance floor. Oy Vey.

/m9: Ill Mitch, is that you?

Yo, this is wickity wickity wack. This wanksta gotta be the worst DJ on the planet. You can't PRE-RECORD a bumpin' DJ set for the clubs -- it's gotta come from the soul, word! You gotta vibe off the room, feel the flow, dig? This cat, he ain't nothin' but posin' like a room full of models at a camera convention. Word is bond. I dig.

Cypherpunks:

I'm reminded of the put-down "They don't even play
a *real* musical instrument."

A restaurant is not a rave.


"We will shake this cave!"
tom
-=W=-

Neat, except that what he's essentially doing is renting a bunch of mix CDs in a convenient package.

But djrock3k is right -- it doesn't come anywhere *close* to "being a DJ". The whole point of heading out somewhere with a good DJ is that they know how to judge the crowd, and can build it up and slow it down to keep things interesting. Of course, you don't necessarily notice this until it's absent. :-)

I would've probably investigated streaming and DSL instead of iPods, myself, but I guess that doesn't have the same cachet.

Must be a Meme in ideaspace, I had this idea yesterday or this morning.
Note that he calls his service "soundtracking" not a full fledged DJ service. With the hip Philly audience , massive reatraunt scene and the sucky radio stations, he could make a killing. 'Course I'm hopelessy biased, living in philly and being a dj and all.

Hmm. Dunno. You'd think if the restaurant/bar/whatever paid the ASCAP/BMI fee they could play the music all the like, just as if they were spinning their own CDs or playing the radio. I think.

But the liability of the dude actually putting the music into the iPods. . . that's a little more dicey.

i think it's extremely fucking brilliant!!
i wonder if he has a metallica collection for metallica bashing theme nights

From the article:

Because many businesses already pay licensing companies like ASCAP and BMI for the right to play the radio in their establishments, Porter doesn't have to worry about licensing issues. And most places already have some kind of sound system in place, meaning they just have to plug the iPod in and press play.

How much you wanna bet that BMI, ASCAP, and the other usual suspects (RIAA etc.) will have a cow when they catch wind of this?

Fuckin' brilliant.