I have a Wilcox-Gay Record player A-95
Can any one tell me about this. Is this a collectors item ect. You can e-mail me @ Harryas619@hotmail.com

I have an Audiodisc Recording Blank with
Les Paul recordings of "Sleep" and "Sitting
on Top" (of the World). It is vinyl, recorded
in 78 rpm "inside out." Lots of guitar work.
The label is hand written in ink. Excellent condition.
Any idea of its worth? Thanks.

hey now, i have come across some "audiodisc" recordings made by my mother. do you have any advice on handling and playing them? i have a technics sl 1300 with a shure m 97xe cartridge and a rek-o-kut b12 with a ge vrII cartrdge. the vr II has both the 1.0 mil sapphire and .7 mil diamond stylii. they are 10" 33 1/3 rpm, center start records. i would very much appreciate any insight you can give me. you can also reach me at petemorris17@hotmail.com. thanks!

Thank you, Phil, for today's most excellent informative program on home-recorded records. For those who missed it, listen at http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112492435

Greetings from Sheboygan, The website I recently created talks briefly about Home Recordings and offers many samples, including a blueprint for a one-hour Public Radio show I'm hoping to get off the ground. It will feature an all Home Recording format - with a few independent studio demos, record booth, and homemade radio recordings thrown into the mix. Check it out and let me know what you think. Use the "contact Phil" page to send me a message. The full radio show is on the page titled "latest program." Thanks in advance for any comments - good or bad. Phil www.snapshotsinsound.com

Tim S.

Hi, Tim , i haven't played it for sometime. It last sounded faint even though amplified. "tinney" It is Audio disc and has metal so may be a "master' I came by it around 1969! I can send a picture of it, if that will help.

Thank you for your prompt responce!

Clayton

Clayton,
Can you tell if it was recorded in a mastering facility or recording studio? If it is an original master recording, it may have some value to collectors. Also, if the mix is different than the official release, if it is a test recording of an early mix or something, then it would certainly be more valuable.

It could also be a bootleg cut on a home unit.... but if that is the case you should be able to tell, as it would probably not be as high quality as a studio-cut recording. Are you able to play it, and if so, how does it sound?

7/27/09

Hi, Tim. I have an Audiodisc recording of Bob Dylan's "basement tapes" somewhere around. Any idea as to value? scarcity?

Thank you,

Clayton

Lori I can digitize them for you if you don't want to buy the equipment. Write me at tim@lexpages.com

Can anyone help?? I found several old Howard Home Recording Disc's in my Aunt basement. Type 6C and Type 8C. I have no way to play them but I think could be helpful for my family tree project. Any thoughts on what I could do. Can they be converted to a digital recording? Do working players still exist? I really don't know much about the records and anyone I ask seems to know nothing about them.

Thanks

Edited by author 03-30-2009 11:17 PM
I have an audiodisc recording blank 78 it has hound dog treble on one side and hound dog bass on the other. How can I find out what it is worth?Or if it is worth anything.Thanks!!

Thank you!!!! That helps a lot! I will start playing with it to see what I can do!

Equalization is where you change the "tone"... the 'treble' and 'bass' knobs on amplifiers are a simple form of eqaulizers. I am sure audacity has some sort of equalization setting. You would want to aim toward increasing the mid-range frequencies where the voice register is at, and lower the bass and higher treble frequencies to reduce noise. Compression is where you decrease the sound between low volumes and high volumes.... you would increase the overall volume by compressing and increasing the volume... this can be, however, somewhat destructive to the audio, so you would take special care when making changes (so always keep your original file that was not messed with). "Normalization" is when the recording is analyzed by the computer to find the loudest spike in volume ("peak"), and it raises the entire volume of the recording to where the peak is at the loudest possible volume before distortion. It may not be necessary though, if you raised the overall volume during compression.

thank Tim!!! I am going to check out soundsoap. Also, can you tell me what you meant by 'equalize' the audio and by 'compress' and 'normalize'?? Ahh, showing my ignorance!!

Diane, Well, first, record it exactly as you have done and keep & archive the file(s) containing that recording(s) [use this as a master copy]. Then you can import those files into audio programs containing cleaning filters such as SoundSoap, which is an external program (that also has a plugin that allows it to be used within certain other audio programs). There may be other noise reduction programs. It allows you to tune out as much of the scratch as you can without losing too much of the audio that you need. Also, equalize the resulting audio to emphasize voice frequencies. Then compress the audio as you wish, and normalize the result.

Finally got my 78 stylus and started recording some of the records with audacity!! Amazing!!! Some of them have such loud whooshing sounds compared to the voice - particulary those of my father as a child. Can anyone tell me if there are specific settings in audacity that I need to use when recording to help with this??
Thanks a bunch!

I recently pulled out my dad's record recordings. They date back to 1941. They played clearand crisp. Found some historical recordings of heads of states. Some were recorded at 78 rpm along with 33.5 rpm. Playing them on the original Presto K8. Looking to buy a new player to preserve the original.

The Dell laptop does have a USB data port; however, I did a little searching and reading and my 'guess' of the problem is that the sound card used by Dell sort of locks out the USB port for sound input - so I can't choose the USB option that is needed on audacity. I am pretty sure there is a fix but I didn't want to pay the $50 to call Dell - not to mention the hours I would have to spend repeating my name and address over and over until I was finally transferred to someone that could help!

I'll post after I try one of the records - hopefully soon!

Diane, Glad to hear the new Stanton has a USB port.... but, as you say, it won't work with your Dell laptop if it doesn't have a USB input. (I thought all laptops had USB data ports?) If the Dell does have a USB data port, then that should work - it doesn't have to go through a sound card's input. At any rate, use the macbook - it's superior anyway. ;)

Hi Tim! I still havent' received my 78 stylus but the Stanton I bought does have a USB connection which worked with audacity on my macbook (I tried it using a regular 33 record and was able to transfer from that). I first tried the whole setup with my PC which I had used with audacity in the past getting recordings from a reel to reel tape. This time I had tons of problems and the upshot is I think the sound card on my pc is not set up for a USB connection - only for a connection through the input port (headphone type). Dell laptop - they have given me so many headaches this past year - hence the new mac!

I didn't see any writing on any of the records to indicate which speed they were recorded at so I guess I will start at 33 and see what happens!

Diane, Glad to help. One problem with the Stanton you may encounter is that the digital output format is SP/DIF. More than likely your computer may not have an SP/DIF input, so you may need to also buy a new sound card, or a converter box. I have an M-Audio converter box, that converts SP/DIF to Firewire (since my computer has a Firewire input), but it is difficult to use. Better to have a soundcard that accepts SP/DIF. (The Numark would be easier to connect since it has USB.)

As for the speed, the labels on the record blanks have a space for the recordist to indicate whether it was recorded at 33 or 78, but all too often most people didn't bother to write much information on the labels. You will know what speed to play the record at just by playing it -- sound too sped-up, slow it down, if too slow, speed it up. It's no big deal really - you will not hurt the record by playing it at the wrong speed, it will just "sound" wrong.

Also, since you are using a computer, you can digitize the record at a different speed than it was recorded at, and then adjust to the correct speed in the computer. Sometimes you have to do this if the record is warped. If a record is recorded at 78-RPM, but if the warps cause the stylus to bounce off the record, you may need to play it at 33-RPM while digitizing, as the slower speed can allow the stylus to glide more smoothly. Then, (using Audacity or other audio software) you can speed up the recording in the computer. Different audio programs call it by different names.... some let you adjust pitch and timing, and since it is digital you can adjust them separately, but for records you will need to lock pitch and time to change together... that is, if you change the pitch, the time should also change.

Thanks Tim!! I decided to call Stanton based on your other recommendation of the Stanton turntables and was able to get one at the Best Buy right by my house for only $200 (much cheaper than the Numark I was looking at) so thank you! As soon as I order the 78 stylus for it I am going to give it a try and I will definetely let you know how it goes! Thanks so much for this page as this topic is sooo hard to find info on!

On more question - you say that they might have been recorded at 33RPM? How would I know what speed they were recorded at? I just assumed they were 78's all around!! I actually tried to get the machine that recorded these out of the barn a few months ago but there was a rats nest in the machine so I abandoned that idea - so I don't have the machine to tell whether it recorded at different speeds or not.

Diane, You are on the right track. Since you have so many records, the best thing to do is get the equipment, plus you do not want to send them off and wait for someone else. Getting someone to transfer 90 records would be way too expensive (more than the cost of the turntable) to ask someone else...you'd be waiting an eternity and possibly never see them again. The Numark you mention looks like a good one. Be sure and buy a special stylus for playing 78s as well. I just searched and found a "78-RPM" stylus for the Numark at LPGear.com.. Most likely your records were cut with the wide groove that would require the "78-RPM" stylus, even if they were recorded at 33-RPM. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Hi! I know this is probably a question already answered but can't find it so please if someone has a few seconds I would love some help. I have about 90 homemade records - wilcox cardboard mostly - from my family. I need to do something with them - have looked into sending them off for recording but they were stored in a hot storage shed for some long I am afraid that would be a waste of money. I am thinking about buying a Numark TTXUSB and trying to do them myself to the computer (I have done a bit of recording 8 tracks on to computer so use aucacity a bit). This way I would at least be able to tell which ones are worth my time recording and which are just not good anymore. Any suggestions???? help??? Oh, other issue is that a lot of them are radio recordings which I am interested in but I don't think the family will be willing to pay to have 'professionally' done - if I buy the machine as opposed to sending them off I can do all the records(not just the recordings of kids saying twinkle twinkle little star!)

Barbara, I don't exactly know how to clean them, but would recommend just a light record brush. I wouldn't use any chemicals on these. Water might even be a risk. The lacquer coating (where the grooves are) is made with castor oil among other things, and can dissolve easily. (Saran wrap will even pull oil out of the lacquer, so don't store any of these records in plastic.)
Modern record players are actually safer to play these with than the record players from back then; a modern turntable with a high-quality magnetic cartridge is light on the groove. If you can have them transferred to CD, playing them through once while digitizing to a computer should be acceptable. Stanton makes decent turntables and stylii (styluses) for playing and transferring 78s to computers/CDs. There are other digitizing turntables on the market that are cheaper (such as a $150 USB turntable), but my experience is that the Stanton turntables are better suited for transferring archival records and 78s such as these.

MY parents had a large floor model machine that recorded 78s and small The container for them says they were made by Wilcox-Gay Corporation of Charlotte, Michigan and are 6 1/2 inch double faced recordio discs- some are blank and some have grooves and they are cream colored with red and black labels= there are also a number of larger (10 inch recordio discs) by Wilcox- Gay.They are very heavy - There are also some small black Crosley discs- Most of them were made in the early forties and the labels indicate they contain family birthday parties or recordings of grandparents who I never knew- There are also things like recordings of Guy Lombardo, the dropping of the atom bomb- talks by Roosevelt and talks by my father who was a surgeon- I have listened to one or two but I am concerned about listening to them on my modern day record players- I also think I should clean them first so that I won't damage them. My research so far seems to indicate that water and mild detergent would be best for thes hellac records but I have found nothing about what I am guessing are acetate recordings. I bought one of those Crosley recording machines to translate your 33s and tapes to cds but I am not certain what to do about these really old family records. Obviously I don't want to damage them- Any ideas at least how to clean them

Would like to hear from anyone who has access to an acetate with the voice of Cowboy Loye Pack. He performed at WWVA in Wheeling, WV, and also at nearby WMMN. Also known to have worked in St. Joe, MO, and York, NE. Thank You.

A 10" 78 rpm acetate disc was found yesterday in a San Diego thrift store by jazz/blues artist Angelo Alexander---an avid collector of 78rpm records, on a radio production of the "Garnish Your Face..." piece, with a cast apparently stars Benjamin Olds [sic], Frank DJ O'Sullivan [sic], featuring S.J. Perlman [sic], with special material written by
Irene Sullivan; the main character is John J. Antennae [sic].

This 2-sided disc would not have been suitable for broadcast airplay, however, due to the lead cast member playing Mr Antennae breaking up the cast with laughter and uttering explicative language on the ending of side 2.

Any info that can provide on this acetate is more than appreciative.

Best Regards,

Mark Matlock, Publicist
Andromeda International Records
"Angelo Alexander Sings Bessie Smith" (TRI-001) TripJazz Records,
division of Andromeda International Records
12440 Moorpark Street
Suite Number #144
Studio City, California 91604 USA
Email: androintl@earthlink.net
Office and Fax: 661-256-0833

(revising my post a little)
Jo4dr, what you have was recorded for the Beatles Fan Club, released in 1963 in England, and an edited version was released in the US in 1964. If the total recording time is 5 minutes, it is the British version; if it is 4 minutes, it is the edited American version.

The Beatles released a Christmas record every year from 1963 to 1969, that were sent to fans who were members of the official fan club. The recordings were compiled into an album called the Beatles Christmas Album. You can find out more information on Wikipedia. Interesting to note that, as wikipedia explains, "US fan club sent the message in a tri-fold cardboard mailer, with the "record" embedded in one of the flaps of cardboard." You can also find a transcript of the entire record at the Wikipedia article. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beatles%27_Christmas_Album

I have an Audiodisc (New York) recording of the Beatles. John sings himself a wierd little happy birthday and prattles to his fans. Paul is more conversational and talks about Jelly Babys and asks his fans to please stop sending them. Side two opens with Paul, I think, singing a verse of Good King Wensislas in German (I think). Ringo and George clown around and it ends with a twisted Rudolf the Red Nosed Reindeer. There is a bleed out with a studio song... I don't know the title. It's a 78 of course... I could use some history.

I have 2 records from 1940 that are audio-scriptions radio recordings from the radio station w.o.r they are labed adolph hitler (answering chamberlain anybody interested you can contect me at frankys1st@aol.com

Hi Robert, I have an interest, for weird research and history purposes... I'll contact you at your blogspot.

I just got this 78 in with a bunch of other records someone gave me. It has a burning cross and one side is labeled "Why I am a member of the KKK" or something like that. It kinda creeps me out. I'm not sure whether to toss it or give it to someone for research or history. Any ideas since this is a place for Weird records?

Robert
http://retrohound.blogspot.com/

My father-in-law recently passed away. I have found a box full of home-recordings and wonder if they are worth anything. There are quite a few from speeches of Roosevelt and Truman as well as radio news shows from WWII era. There are also lots of musical recordings both of professional recording artists, as well as people singing at home. Many are unmarked and some are damaged. I have no record player, so I don't know whether they'll even play or not.

Hi again I sent some more pics for you hope they help.
 
                        thanks frank



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Hi
Yes I would like to sell .That's why I have been writing to places on the web looking for info or anybody that's interest in this type of history. Throw out an offer and they are yours.



**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)

Frank,
Well they are most certainly worth hanging on to!
It would have been recorded at the radio station (WOR in New York) for replay later on the station. Anything WWII related like this, especially since this was professionally recorded at the radio station, is of special interest to collectors. Are you looking to sell?

Question please help-I have 2 recorded records from 1940. Records are audio-scriptions inc. radio recording studios on the paper label its typed adolph hitler "answering chamblain" station W.O.R 02/24/1940 can anybody tell me anything about these records or if they are worth holding on to.


                   thanks frank

Clayton B. I have two questions you may be able to help with: One; Can anyone tell me more about a Jazz?fusion artist named Wyndall K. Frog? Two: Fats Waller and a record somewhere in the middle of the size of a 45rpm and a 33rpm? Any help would be welcome.

I have a collection of 78 records of The Philadelphia Story with James Stewart and other famous actors and actresses recorded in 1942. It belonged to a member of his fan club. It is recorded by Zephyr. Also I have a recording on 4/4/1942 by James Stewart by audiodisc titled This Is War. I am curious as to the value. barjon@execpc.com

I am interested in finding a photograph, drawing or diagram of an acetate 78 rpm record recorder that would have been used for making home recordings in and around 1951. Also a description in some sort of detail of the procedure used to produce 78 rpm recordings. My father, now deceased, made his own recordings at this time, and I have a healthy collection of these, very "listenable" and in good condition. I also have a good collection of purchased 78's in excellent condition, purchased in the late 1940's and early 1950's. Detailed information about the origins of the home made recordings is readily available. All I need to make the information complete (for a posting on my web site about my father) would be an explanation of how these kinds of recordings would have been made, and hopefully a photograph of the apparatus used. Thanks for anything you might know to shed some light on this for me!

Does anyone know the approximate value of a soundsciber? I recently got one, but don't have much of a use for it. Its model 56T.
Thanks
spaceshipgoodtimes@gmail.com

Clayton B. I think the best way to go for Bonnie P. regarding her " cardboardy recording" of her Dad, is to follow the advice of Tim S. Good Luck!

I have the equipment to transfer records to CD.
Although Clayton B. is onto something, suggesting that Bonnie find a dealer who could transfer the record, I would seriously suggest that Bonnie not mail the record to a stranger, as you never know what could happen with the package in transit.... especially since this is only one record. I would, instead, suggest finding someone local who has a turntable that could perform the transfer. There are "USB" turntables on the market now that could sufficiently transfer the record. Otherwise the ones made by Stanton do a good job. Even if the record is recorded at 78 RPM, and if the turntable (such as a USB one) does not have the 78-RPM speed, the record can be played back at 33 or 45 and the speed can be adjusted, after the sound is transferred to a computer, using software. If the record player has the option, I would use a stylus for playing "78s" (since the record was most likely cut with a large groove), however, USB turntables can sometimes work well enough with whatever stylus they come standard with if you are not extra picky at getting the best sound quality out of the recording, especially since this is a single record, most likely with a very short recording... just make sure the weight is very light so it will not damage the grooves.

Bonnie P, I might suggest you look at one of those places that transfer vinyl to cd, i know it's old, and may only have a thin coating of "vinyl" which may be impregnated with castor oil as the early "78"s were so store in paper not plastic as the castor oil will separate from the "vinyl" coating. I know it's long distance but you might try calling Avalon Antiques in Portland, Oregon, and ask for Paul their number is 503-224-7156 he may be able to help. Another place is the Vinyl Resting Place www.vinylrestingplaceusa.com. Hope this will help.
clayton

Hello, bonnie What do you mean not usable condition. Do you know those cardboard records play, like regular ones?

Hi, Bonnie P, This kind of interests me.I'll check around for any information available about your 1945 recording and write back. iam as curious as you are, and it would be good to know there was a way to hear your Father's voice again

Clayton

Are you absolutly sure that the record will not play?? Dan
< replied-to message removed by QT >

On May 8, 1945, my father, Sydney C. Bausor, a soldier in the Army who served in the Philippines and at Corrigador, made a voice recording sponsored by the USO. I recently found it in my mother's home as I was cleaning it out after her death. The recording was not in usable condition. It is on a sort of cardboardy circle. The "record" - which is the size of the old 45 rpm's but has a hole the size of the 78's - has writing on it that says: "For Duplicates of Voice Recordings write: Mirror Record Corp, 58 West 25th St, New York 10, NY." I can't find this as a current company when I google it on the internet. Does anyone know anything about it? Has it morphed into a different corporation? Is it defunct? Is there any way to retrieve the recording? I want very badly to hear my father's voice. Appreciate any help anyone can give!

I just came across this website. I used to work at Reco-Art sound recording company at 212 N. 12th St. which later became Sigma Sound. Pretty much every thing that came out of Philly from mid 50s until mid 60s came from there. All the Cameo/Parkway and Swan records were done ther. I was there when "The Twist" was done. Anyway, we made our acetates on a Van Epps lathe from an Ampex 350 into a Grampian driver to homemade hot stylus. The early 45s were done with a 78 stylus. We used to have a roblem when a trolley or big truck would go b southbound on 12th St. The owner was Emil H. Korsen (Hy Lit used to call him "the ear".. Sometimes in between the runout grooves you'll see either RECOART PHILA,PA or EHK, the owners initials. It was a small group working there when I was there. It was Emil, his wife Felice, Carol the secretary and me. I was being trained by Emil. Between the hits that came out there in the 50s and 60, the Huff and Gamble era and later that that wasn't declared a musical historic site. I've ramble on long enough. Some you may have heard this stuff before or knew about it but I thought I'd throw my two cents in anyway.

5/27/08

Hi, Glad you touched on this subject of one -of- a- kind records. I have a record with an aluminum center "Bob Dylan " The Basement Tapes. Can you tell me more about it? and as stated is the only way to know "value"through auction on E_Bay?

Thanks, Clayton

troubleclw, if these are standard-issue records (sold in stores at one time), you can get a good feel on how much a record is typically selling for by browsing ebay, or other record stores. Check out how they are priced. Or are these, on the other hand, one-of-a-kind "acetate" records, "one-offs", "dubplates", records with an aluminum center, or anything of that sort? If so, and you want to know how much money you could sell any of these for (is that what you mean by "value"?), it would depend on who is on the record, and the only way to know is to sell in an auction like ebay.

i found 11 long playing recors in their sleeves most of them are in mint shape just wondering how to get info on the value of these

Ken G, if you want to transfer it yourself, there are a number of turntables on the market now that connect to computers which will allow you to digitize the audio from the records. Some of them include the 78-RPM speed, but even if you use a turntable that does not have 78, you can digitize it at 33 or 45 RPM and use audio software that will convert that to 78. However, you will want to be sure that you play the record with a stylus intended to play 78s, which were larger grooves than LPs and 45s. I have a Stanton digital turntable that has the 78-RPM speed and a stylus for playing 78s. I have digitized several home recorded acetates with it, with good results.

My wife's parents have a number of Wilcox-Gay records that they made that date from the early '40s. They play from the inside out and are 78 rpm. We want to copy them over onto CDs so they can listen to them. Any advice on how to proceed?

"ajerkbytheshirt" -- this is fascinating, and the reason I started my own page, "weird records" or archaicrecords.com

Your query suggests a kind of technology that I am not sure exists yet, but perhaps in research labs: voiceprint DNA. There is research being made into music DNA where if a computer is fed just a sample of music, it will access a database to figure out what the song is. So, perhaps voice DNA technology is also in the works? Even so, a voice database would only be able to contain voices that are known. As for these home recordings, it's still up to family and friends of those people to identify them. One of the reasons I have posted these recordings is in the hopes that someone will find them who knows who these people are. Otherwise, using genealogy-type research such as what you are doing is another way, but it is still hit-and-miss.

Any tips on how to track down the people who's voices appear on my found records?

A blog explaining and linking to audio is here: http://ajerkbytheshirt.blogspot.com/2008/04/found-sounds.html

I've been trying to google any full names that are mentioned in the recordings, and trying to find obituaries or mentions of people who lived in west Michigan at the time and who's ages would match up, but I'm not having any luck, really.

I found a thick 78 record - says Audiodisc on top an written it says on 1 side- How Ya gonna Keep em down on the farm and the other side says- Here comes your Pappy with the wron kind of ------ ( can't make out the last word). does anyone know how i look this up to see who wrote or sings it?????

 hi i am sunil ind guj gondal dies, such as age validation.

While scales are the easiest structure to collect, they must be taken from an area on the fish known to fin where the largest scales are located. The area is first cleaned with a dull knife from the head towards the tail of the fish to remove adhering slime and debris. The knife is then cleaned and used to exhibit complete and clear growth patterns. For gadids and flounders, this area is on either side of the lateral line anterior to the caudal peduncle, the area where the first and largest scales develop. For other species, such as bluefish (Pomatomus saltatrix), black sea bass (Centropristis striata), weakfish (Cynoscion regalis) and scup (Stenotomus chrysops), scales are removed from the area behind the pectoral
Otoliths are removed by dissection of the head of the fish with a sharp knife or bone saw. Usually only sagittal otoliths, the largest of the three pairs found in the sacculi of the inner ear located posterior to the brain, are removed for examination. Otoliths to be stored dry are removed from the sacculi before being placed in an envelope. For some species (e.g., Atlantic mackerel, alewife (Alosa pseudoharengus) and Atlantic herring), otoliths are stored for one or two days in water-filled vials after dissection, since they require careful cleaning under a microscope at the laboratory.

The following information is recorded on the envelope for each specimen sampled on resource surveys: cruise, station, species code, length, and an individual identification number which acts as a link between the age sample and other detailed biological information collected from the specimen. Corresponding information for specimens collected from commercial sources includes: vessel name, date, statistical reporting area, latitude and longitude of the tow from which the sample was collected (if available), port of landing, tow depth, gear, sampling method, species code, market category, length and sex.

Surfclams (Spisula solidissima) and ocean quahogs (Arctica islandica) collected during NEFSC surveys are shucked at sea. Whole paired valves are stored in cloth bags with labels identifying the station location, date, and number of specimens. To minimize valve damage, small specimens are frozen whole for later processing at the laboratory.

Preparation of age structures - General

The following are general descriptions of methods for preparation of structures commonly used for age determination by the Fishery Biology Investigation. Other techniques, such as staining, may be used for special studies but are not presented in detail here. Modifications of certain techniques for particular species are described where appropriate. A complete list of equipment used, with specifications and possible commercial suppliers, is given in Appendix I.

Most of the procedures currently in use for finfish were originally developed in the early 1970's. From 1970 to 1975, numerous experiments were conducted to develop methods to enhance otolith growth patterns by heating (e.g., burning, "deep frying" in hot oil, and baking in toaster and microwave ovens). Baking otoliths has proven to be best for our purposes since colorization of the protein matrix comprising hyaline zones is permanent with this technique. Nichy's experiments with various plastics from 1972 to 1974 led to the use of laminated plastic for making scale impressions. Other experiments from 1972 to 1974 with low-speed saws and a variety of blades led to development of procedures for thin-sectioning otoliths.

Preparation of age structures - Scales

Age determinations using scales may be made from direct observations, scale impressions, or photographs. Direct observation of scales is rarely used however, since the scales are often covered with debris or dried and pigmented residue. In addition, they are generally translucent because of their thickness, internal structure, and coloration, which render growth zones difficult to interpret with transmitted light. Also, scales are not flat, resulting in uneven light diffraction and distortion of the image during microscopic examination.

Scale impressions in laminated plastic film are generally most useful. Cellulose acetate plastics are avoided since they require heat or chemicals to soften the surface for adequate scale impressions. However, studies of fish species with thick scales (e.g., striped bass) may require the use of the heavier cellulose acetate plastic. Several types of laminated plastic film, consisting of a thin, soft polyethylene or surlyn layer over a thicker, harder vinyl or polyester substrate, are simpler to use and produce consistent results for most species. Representative compositions are as follows (from Dery 1983):


Substrate Middle Layer Surface Layer

0.203 mm 0.002 mm 0.032 mm
(0.0080 in) (0.0001 in) (0.0013 in)
semi-rigid saran polyethylene
polyester

0.203 mm 0.002 mm 0.019 mm
(0.0080 in) (0.0001 in) (0.0008 in)
semi-rigid saran surlyn
polyester

0.190 mm none 0.051 mm
(0.0075 in) (0.0020 in)
polyvinyl chloride surlyn

0.190 mm none 0.051 mm
(0.0075 in) (0.0020 in)
polyvinyl chloride polyethylene

0.185 mm 0.018 mm 0.051 mm
(0.0073 in) (0.0007 in) (0.0020 in)
vinyl chloride saran polyethylene

Any of the above laminated plastics produce impressions of scale surface features, but those having a middle layer of saran and a surface layer of polyethylene are generally superior.

Scale impressions have several advantages over the direct observation of scales. They may be viewed by either transmitted or reflected light, and several scales may be impressed at the same time on one slide allowing for the selection of scales with the clearest features. The impressions are clean, even if the original scale used was not, and are easily stored and handled. The image of the scale is also flatter than the original scale and minimal depth-of-focus distortions at high magnification are encountered. Impressions are fairly easy to prepare and simplify the handling of a large number of specimens.

Scale impressions are prepared by placing several scales, sculptured side up, on a heavy base slide of 1 mm thick (0.04 in) cellulose acetate plastic. A laminated plastic slide, with the soft side down, is then placed over the scales (Fig. 1). Another heavy plastic slide (0.65-1.00 mm thick) is placed on top of the laminated plastic slide, and the whole "sandwich" of slides is rolled through a jeweler's press (Fig. 2). The two heavy acetate slides act as cushions to equalize pressure over the thin and thick areas of the scales, resulting in a uniform impression. The scales are then removed from the plastic slide and the impression is stored in the original specimen envelope. The impressing procedure must be done in one smooth, continuous motion to avoid distortion of the impression. The two rollers of the press must be carefully adjusted to obtain a complete, clear impression. The upper roller of the press is usually canted slightly for impressing ctenoid scales. This applies slightly more pressure to the thin anterior edge of the scale. Also, two laminated slides may be used to " sandwich" very small scales, if it is difficult to distinguish between the sculptured and smooth sides.



Preparation of age structures - Otoliths

Otolith preparation for microscopic examination includes whole, baked and broken, or thin cross-sectioned specimens. Species specific methodology has been developed and is described more fully in the individual species sections of the manual.

Whole otoliths are viewed microscopically in ethyl alcohol or placed in depressions of black plastic trays. Embedding in resin improves contrast and enhances detection of growth zones under reflected light. Whole otoliths of some short-lived species such as butterfish (Peprilus triacanthus) are examined unmounted in ethyl alcohol since they are thin enough for detection of early annuli and prominent, widely spaced later annuli. Pairs of otoliths from pelagic species as Atlantic mackerel and Atlantic herring are positioned in circular depressions in black molded plastic trays (Watson 1965) and embedded in Permount or clear fiberglass resin (Fig. 3). Permount may in time react with the molded plastic, producing air bubbles, "yellowing," or crystallization. Application of a few drops of xylene solvent removes air bubbles and stabilizes the resin for permanent storage. Fiberglass casting resin will not adhere to molded plastic, but may be used with other materials such as a high-density acrylic.

Currently, only Atlantic cod (Gadus morhua) otoliths are baked, a process that takes from 3 to 6 minutes in a scientific radiant heat oven at about 275°C (525°F). Small otoliths tend to require more baking than large otoliths, possibly the result of their rapid growth and greater diffusion of protein. Properly baked otoliths are a caramel color; a grey or ashen color is an indication of overbaking, which may cause the otolith to crumble when broken at the nucleus. Visibility of the annuli is enhanced by baking, since the hyaline zones turn brown in contrast to the white opaque zones. Burned otoliths may fade with time, but baked otoliths remain unchanged even after storage for several years.

Otoliths are thin-sectioned on an Isomet low-speed saw (Nichy 1977) using a pair of fine-grit diamond-impregnated blades separated by a spacer approximating the desired thickness of the section (Fig. 4). Sectioning is accomplished by mounting the otolith on a small cardboard tag bearing crosslines that facilitate proper alignment. Otoliths of most species are positioned to obtain a transverse cross-section across the collum of the sulcus (Fig. 5). A small piece of double-sided tape covers the crosslines at the center of the tag and secures the otolith in the proper alignment for sectioning. Some species have fragile otoliths and the sections break easily. For these, a bed of molten wax is flooded onto the tag and the otolith is positioned on the wax bed before it hardens completely. The wax is heated in a double boiler, egg poacher, or other suitable container, on an adjustable-temperature hot plate at approximately 115°C (240°F). The otolith is then completely embedded in a mixture of four parts molten paraffin wax, one part decolorizing carbon (enough to just turn the wax black), and three parts calcium oxide powder (enough bulk to prevent the wax from running and to provide additional abrasive action during sectioning). Only a thin layer of wax covering the otolith is required. After the wax has hardened, the tag is inserted in a custom-machined slotted holder on the saw which aligns the otolith for cross-sectioning by the blades (Fig. 6). The saw's micrometer adjustment may be used for final alignment to produce a precision cut. Two 7.6 cm (3 in) diameter blades separated by a 6.35 cm (2.5 in) plastic or metal spacer are mounted on the saw unit to produce a thin-section with one cut. Spacer thickness varies from 0.015 to 0.030 mm (0.006 to 0.012 in) depending on the viewing requirements for age marks in the section. The diameter of the spacer is normally the same, or slightly smaller, than the flanges supporting the two blades.

The saw is operated at 300 rpm and the otolith is gently lowered onto the spinning blades with their rims immersed in a lubricating/cooling solution of 15 parts cold water to 1 part wetting agent. We have found clear, common liquid dishwashing detergent suitable. (If foaming is excessive, the amount of detergent may be decreased.) The detergent solution also washes away particles of wax from the blade surfaces. A balancing weight is used on the saw arm that is light enough to keep sectioning time between 1 and 2 minutes. This also prevents blade warping. An automatic shut-off on the saw is adjusted to turn off the saw once the otolith is cut but before the tag itself is cut. After completing a section, the tag is removed from the slotted holder and bent along the cuts (Fig. 7) to expose the section for removal and placement on a small square of black construction paper. It is folded inside a protective piece of paper, and returned to the specimen envelope with the cut otolith remaining on the tag. Preparation and sectioning of an otolith generally takes about 2 to 3 minutes.



Preparation of age structures - Bivalves

Age determinations of surfclams are made from thin sections of chondrophores (Ropes and O'Brien 1979). For large surf clams, a portion of the chondrophore is first excised using a pair of 25.4 cm (10 in) diameter diamond-impregnated sawblades spaced 4 mm apart and mounted in a high-speed (1725 rpm) saw unit (Fig. 8); those of small surf clams are excised using 10-13 cm (4-5 in) diameter blades and a low-speed (300 rpm) saw to minimize breakage. The excised portion is broken away from the valve by finger pressure. Accurate age determination depends upon careful orientation of the valve during excision of the chondrophore so that the excised portion contains the umbo, the earliest formed portion of the valve (Fig. 9).

After minor polishing on carbide paper to flatten the surface and remove saw marks, the excised portion is glued to a glass slide using epoxy cement and thin-sectioned by a single blade on the low-speed saw (Fig. 10). An acceptable section is about 0.25 mm thick and takes less than 15 minutes to cut. Surf clams have a chondrophore in each valve of a pair, so the second valve may be processed if the first does not produce a suitable thin-section.

Age determinations for ocean quahogs are made from acetate peels (Ropes 1987). The left valve is used since it has a single prominent tooth in the hinge containing annuli which can be exposed by sectioning. The valve is marked on the ventral margin at a point from the posterior end equal to one-third of the valve length (Fig. 11). This orients sectioning through the umbo and parallel to the broadest tooth surface. The valve is fastened t

The primary sources of age samples processed by the Fishery Biology Investigation are Northeast Fisheries Science Center (NEFSC) research vessel bottom trawl and shellfish resource surveys and commercial landings. Additional samples are periodically collected during various state-conducted research surveys and by fisheries observers who serve aboard domestic and foreign fishing vessels.

Scales and otoliths are the anatomical structures most frequently collected from finfish. Scales are preferred because they are easier to collect and process, providing, of course, that clearly defined growth patterns are consistently formed. Young-of-year specimens and samples of certain species with fragile or difficult to remove age structures, e.g., Atlantic herring (Clupea harengus) and Atlantic mackerel (Scomber scombrus), are frozen whole for later dissection and processing at the laboratory. Other structures, such as fin rays or vertebrae, may also be collected and used for special studies, such as age validation.

While scales are the easiest structure to collect, they must be taken from an area on the fish known to exhibit complete and clear growth patterns. For gadids and flounders, this area is on either side of the lateral line anterior to the caudal peduncle, the area where the first and largest scales develop. For other species, such as bluefish (Pomatomus saltatrix), black sea bass (Centropristis striata), weakfish (Cynoscion regalis) and scup (Stenotomus chrysops), scales are removed from the area behind the pectoral fin where the largest scales are located. The area is first cleaned with a dull knife from the head towards the tail of the fish to remove adhering slime and debris. The knife is then cleaned and used to remove a sample of scales by scraping firmly towards the head of the fish. The knife blade with adhering scales is then placed between the sheets of a folded paper liner in an envelope and wiped clean of the scales.

Otoliths are removed by dissection of the head of the fish with a sharp knife or bone saw. Usually only sagittal otoliths, the largest of the three pairs found in the sacculi of the inner ear located posterior to the brain, are removed for examination. Otoliths to be stored dry are removed from the sacculi before being placed in an envelope. For some species (e.g., Atlantic mackerel, alewife (Alosa pseudoharengus) and Atlantic herring), otoliths are stored for one or two days in water-filled vials after dissection, since they require careful cleaning under a microscope at the laboratory.

The following information is recorded on the envelope for each specimen sampled on resource surveys: cruise, station, species code, length, and an individual identification number which acts as a link between the age sample and other detailed biological information collected from the specimen. Corresponding information for specimens collected from commercial sources includes: vessel name, date, statistical reporting area, latitude and longitude of the tow from which the sample was collected (if available), port of landing, tow depth, gear, sampling method, species code, market category, length and sex.

Surfclams (Spisula solidissima) and ocean quahogs (Arctica islandica) collected during NEFSC surveys are shucked at sea. Whole paired valves are stored in cloth bags with labels identifying the station location, date, and number of specimens. To minimize valve damage, small specimens are frozen whole for later processing at the laboratory.

Preparation of age structures - General

The following are general descriptions of methods for preparation of structures commonly used for age determination by the Fishery Biology Investigation. Other techniques, such as staining, may be used for special studies but are not presented in detail here. Modifications of certain techniques for particular species are described where appropriate. A complete list of equipment used, with specifications and possible commercial suppliers, is given in Appendix I.

Most of the procedures currently in use for finfish were originally developed in the early 1970's. From 1970 to 1975, numerous experiments were conducted to develop methods to enhance otolith growth patterns by heating (e.g., burning, "deep frying" in hot oil, and baking in toaster and microwave ovens). Baking otoliths has proven to be best for our purposes since colorization of the protein matrix comprising hyaline zones is permanent with this technique. Nichy's experiments with various plastics from 1972 to 1974 led to the use of laminated plastic for making scale impressions. Other experiments from 1972 to 1974 with low-speed saws and a variety of blades led to development of procedures for thin-sectioning otoliths.

Lance, i do not have an answer for you. Sounds like an interesting turntable/player i can ask around here, maybe dig up some info.

Clayton

I have recently enhareted a large Transcription player a that works. It plays 33's 45's and large 78's. The needle works fine, and the spin is smooth. It looks industrial, like a radio station whould have used it. I think that is were my dad got it. How rare is this thing? It is called a Gates ...00rp00 harris intertype Corporation.

That one from "linxiaofang" is the first spam I've seen here in a long time.
.... trying to figure out how to delete it....

Carol,
Try changing the speed to 33 RPM. Even back then they used this speed.
At that time, they used the same stylus, with a larger tip, that was generally made for "78s". Sound quality for 33 (at that time) was much lower.

My 80+ year old sister has a large colection of amateur recordings that were made in the 1940s I own one of those record players that you can buy at Cosco or Restauration Hardware in order to be able to play my old 78s. We tried to play her old acetate records at the 78 speed but, it seemed that the turn table was turning too fast for them. The voices seemed too high and unrecognizable. Some of her recordings are inside out and some outside in. What do we need in order to hear these recordings at the proper speed?
Carol
aug241957@aol.com

 I recently obtained a Presto Model 85 Recording Amplifier. I also have 2-Presto 6-D Recording turntables, which have 16-inch turntables. Does anyone have any suggestions of how I can re-label the amplifier's front panel? The letters and numbers appear to be embossed into the metal-panel. I think the numbers and letters had white-paint and the panel was painted black. Any suggestions of how I can restore this Presto Recording Amplifier will be GREATLY appreciated!!! I will say thank you in advanced.
 Best Regards, Gaylord Ewing PS. The Presto Recorder I have,was known as the Presto Model C-2 Recorder. Made about 1939.

Hi..does that mean Brent did'nt get my msg?? Thanks!! Dan
< replied-to message removed by QT >

1/27/07

Danny, it is a fun discussion, but it is addressed to Brent. I too am looking for a phonocord manual for another on this chatline.
Clayton

       
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Hi Brent...I have a phonocord that I got on Ebay that I paid less than $200.00 for..in perfect condition. It is now being completely rebuilt as it was dropped upon delivery. That is about what I have seen them sold for..on Ebay. Yours, with a double TT...I have never seen b4. Would like to see a pic of it. If you have the owners manual, it is a little more valuable. Is the mic still with it?? Problem with these is many...old blanks on ebay are usually no good anymore..new ones are being made but are expensive. Cutting needles are iffy. The sound quality wasn't really very good. These hit the market about the same time that wire recorders did, and the wire recorders were MUCH better sound quality. These are popular with folks who just want one for the novelty of having one. I would like to see a pic of yours! Bottom line is that unless you have the $$ to have it completely rebuilt..it's not good for much more than looking at! Hope this has helped! Let me hear from you! Thanks!! Dan

< replied-to message removed by QT >

I have a Packard Bell PhonOcord silver anniversary edition. Trying to find out if this carries any value. Has two turntables (one is the recorder obviously) that pull out, and the am radio has northwest and southwest dials with station id's on them. Anyone know anything about these? Case is in pretty good shape, just a few minor scratched and the top lacquer has mild age cracks.

Thanks Clayton, That was very interesting, although I doubt that these reference copies are worth anywhere near the $150,000+ that the V. U. brought. One of the things that made that recording so valuable was that there was no other known version of–the master tapes were lost. For some of the records I have, I know that recordings of it still exist. However, now I'm interested in finding out if I have demos that never made it to press. What intrigues me is that a few of the ref. copies have unlabeled songs that have been "X"ed out in wax, but are still playable. The lack of labeling makes it hard to find out who the artists were, but maybe I'll find a recording of Elvis that was never released!!! Oh, that's right, Elvis didn't record for Columbia Records. Maybe I'll have to settle for Dylan or Paul Simon ;)

Hi, Ken L, I found these two links on the Velvet Underground. 1. The Velvet Underground Plays Portland The Portland Mercury Apollo Masters. 2. Detailed Twang The Velvet Underground Lost 1966 acetate. Hope these help .
Clayton

Clayton, Can you give me some more information regarding "Velvet Underground"? I know the group but what do they have to do with acetate/aluminum records? Thanks.

1/22/07


ken, i do not have any information on these as yet, i think they are pretty rare however. It may be there is a link regarding the now -famous Velvet Underground and those who helped to E-Bay it. Perhaps, there would be help there.
Take Care,

Clayton

       
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I have some acetate coated aluminum records that come from Columbia Records where my father worked. They all date to 1964. Some are one sided others are two sided. All of them have wax pen writing on them to indicate the artist and a reference number. They are 10" and play at 45 rpm--one song per side. They are in manila-type sleeves with hand written notes as to whose attention the recording should go. They are all labeled as being "reference copies". I have recordings of various artists that I have validated that they were recording at Columbia Records in 1964. What I don't know is if these have any value outside of being unique and what reference copy means (master or just a copy?). One that may be particularly valuable is a two sided 10" 45 rpm reference copy of Dave Brubeck and Louis Armstrong playing Summer Song/Nomad. These songs were released on a 45 in 1964 and in the LP The Real Ambassadors. Any help in understanding their valu would be appreciated.

A recent discovery in an L.A. thrift store has unearthed a very rare piece of vinyl in the history of country music: an 8-inch 78 rpm acetate recording of Bob Lykins-"Cry Baby Heart" b/w "Second Hand Heart," dated 2/16/1950.

While I have not been able to yield any info in the net on country singer Bob Lykins, this recording is absolutely stellar on both songs, but especially his rendition of "Cry Baby Heart." Lykins does not try and go overboard on this song, which he performs solo with vocal and guitar; Lykins has a simple, natural delivery that transcends 5-decades of country music styles, making his version probably even better than better known versions (i.e. including those by Conway Twitty and George Moran).

Lykins renders "Cry Baby Heart" as though he is telling of his own life story. This immediately draws the listener into the song, which is exactly what all great singers are supposed to do, making the song relevant to the listener.

What this historic piece of country music was doing in an L.A. thrift store is beyond me; the recording studio or pressing plant states "Cry Baby Heart" came from Recoton Corporation/New York.

To Bob Lykins, wherever you are, I give you a standing ovation for your exquisite performance on "Cry Baby Heart." Not even all the decades of wear and deterioration in the fragile grooves of the acetate could diminish your stunning and perfect performance, which the song's composer(s) should be so proud of. As my lovely Miss Loretta Lynn would say, "Bob, you did country music real proud."

Mark Matlock
Andromeda International Records
"Angelo Alexander Sings Bessie Smith" TRI-001
TripJazz Records/Andromeda International Records
12440 Moorpark Street
Suite Number #144
Studio City, California 91604
USA
androintl@earthlink.net

A one-off recording, or home recording, which this would have been,
would not have been cut into vinyl or shellac. Vinyl and shellac
have normally only been used for pressings -- pressed records.
Records that are cut (one at a time) are usually cut with
softer materials: "acetate" or lacquer, cardboard coated with
plastic, even discarded X-rays.

Nowadays even compact discs are being used on record cutters
to cut short recordings made of phonograph grooves
(even though they are smaller discs which make for grooves
closer to the center than normal larger sized discs, and
a clamp or adapter has to be fashioned for holding the
disc in place due to the
larger center hole).

1/20/07

Rondie, Vinyl did not exist and shellac ( Asian Beetle extract) was used according to Gramaphone Wikipedia. The 1940's were not yet making a true vinyl or polymer for the recordings of the time.
Hope this helps,

cfurbear@yahoo.com

       
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1/20/07

Rhondie, Try Gramaphone Wikipedia for information on the composition of records of that 1940's time period. The composition was not a true vinyl or polymer at that time. cfurbear@yahoo.com
 

       
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Hi, Thanks for writing me. I did look for a Packard Bell Phonocord Manual with no luck. Can you find anything out about the Bob Dylan acetate? also, i have some 78's Bartok and others(place accent mark here.) any new information on these would be helpful.

Thank you very much,

cfurbear@yahoo.com

< replied-to message removed by QT >

Hi Randi,
I think that vinyl records were made earlier than the 40's but were mostly for expermential purposes. I think that it was in the mid to late 40's when 331/3 was introduced..when vinyl became common. Perhaps your Mom's recording was made on a home or portable record cutter that would have been very popular in'49. Let me CC this to a friend of mine who, I'm sure knows exactly what you are asking about. Thanks!! Dan
< replied-to message removed by QT >

My mom's high school choir recorded a concert on a red,vinyl-like 78rmp, in 1949. I don't have the album anymore, but would love to know if the same technology existed in 1942? I'm writing a book that is set in that year and would like to have my main character's choir record a record to send to the troops overseas. Did vinyl technology exist then or would a record have to be made out of shelac or acetate?

Thanks for your help!
Friederfam@aol.com

10/20/07

Hi, Thanks for getting in touch . I am not certain of values some of these around here go for as little as $1.00 each or depending on the record . maybe you could find some one that does complementry appraising for some may command more value. Try this e-mail perhaps they can help.www.milliusesetateservice.com or e-mail : sandramillius@comcast.net Millus Estate Services. Meantime, i'll ask around too!
cfurbear@yahoo.com

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c Would someone please help me to find out what if any value there is in a bunch of 78rpm recordings I recently found. Thier lables say things like
Brunswick, his master's voice, columbia , SMC pro arte, Folkways records,
Victrola with the number 1350-A and writing that must be arabic or hebrew, if there's a difference. I don't really know.
Balkan phonograph records label says No. 4015B NINNA YAVRUM NINNA
Plus there are a Victor and brunswick with the labels in Russian.
I would be most greatfull for any help you might give me i n researching these recordings.
My Email is...zolton59@yahoo.com

Thank you for your time.

Very sincerely,
T. Hair

10/10/07


Hey, Thaks for writing . I will try to help you find one.

Cfurbear@yahoo.com

       
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Am looking for the owners manual for a Packard Bell PhonoCord model 1052. A photo copy would be just fine. Please email me if can help. Thank you!!! danny3447@cfl.rr.com

9/29/07
Tim S. I checked back on this site and sent it to some other s as well. Also , i attempted to send a scan of a photo of the Acetate Audiodisc
recording blank. There are two holes in it, and no markings other than "secret tapes" in cursive written on one side of the recording. It really is Bob Dylan's "basement tapes" on an aluminium backing in pretty good condition. When i can , there are other "78"rpm's i would like to send. more along the lines of 'Benny Goodman" and "Big Band" This is a pretty good site, and i would appreciate any help with identification and care or these as well as "scanning'

Thanks Again,

cfurbear

I purchased some 78 RPM records at a thrift store today... in them I purchased 2 copies of the same record, but one was a pressed copy, and the other was apparently a copy someone made with a home recording machine, an acetate. I purchased both of them for the heck of it... the acetate must have been made on a pretty fancy machine, as it has spiral grooves leading in and out, and most home recording machines had a cutting head mounted on something like a standard tonearm which was driven by an internal feedscrew, at a fixed rate, making spiral grooves or locked grooves impossible.

Does anyone know if any home recording machines were made that were capable of doing spiral or locked grooves?

Hello! Good Site! Thanks you! udtsnqosimd

Can anyone help me with providing information or record label scans on ANY unusual and/or one-of-a-kind vinyl records (7" or 12") that were pressed by Columbia Custom that feature matrix numbers such as XCTV, XTV, XSV, ZTSC, XCSV, ZTSP, ZTEP, ZTSB, etc? Completing research in to the USA COLUMBIA CUSTOM MATRIX NUMBERING SYSTEM for outside client record pressings. Any imput would be welcome.
Reg Bartlette
reginald@mail2world.com

I noticed a posting from May/06 about the Jerry Lewis, Dean Martin blooper audiodisc recording for the movie, "The Caddy." I have one of those and would like to know if anyone can tell me more information about where to inquire of it's value.

Clayton, digital camera -- try that. If the flash ruins the image, try using an overhead light, as long as the lighting is even across the record, and keep the flash off.

RcF, I just found this while browsing - a record cleaner that claims to be able to clean "acetates", the "Miracle Record Cleaner": http://discdoc.com/
I have no experience with this though. I wouldn't put an acetate/lacquer in a vacuum, since sometimes the lacquer is not well-glued to the aluminum base and a vacuum could possibly wipe the recording away.

I have recently opened a box of my Grandmothers that contained many of these discs. My question is how do you clean them if absolutely neccesary?
I understand that not cleaning them is best but I have mold on a few that do not have lables yet seem to have something recorded on them. These are studio discs I believe, because of the 3 holes around the center hole. My grandmother worked in San Francisco for KYA radio station in the 50's.

5/7/07


Hi It's good to find this forum again. I have not yet been able to scan this acetate record It seems no one can figure it out. So how do you get the pictures or labels to appear on the website? Digital camera? I also . in addition to AudioDisc have several '78's that i will be able to tell you more about , i think these are "big band'

Glad this website is here
 Clayton

Hello! It's great to see this forum active.

I'd like to submit my free services in converting any old voice-o-graphs, recordios, prestos or what have yous into CD (or mp3) format for anyone interested. I wrote an article about this on Collectors' Quest a while ago and found that I got a lot of e-mails asking for this service. I've been doing it with my own collection for a while & enjoy hearing these recordings. Of course, the discs will be returned with the CD in question.

So, this seems to be the place to offer. If you're looking to convert stuff, please e-mail c david at resonant fish dot com (decoded appropriately).

Looking forward to helping out! These things are important to preserve.

Steve,

To retain the value of your records, you'll want to play them with the lightest pickup possible, and transfer them to another medium (CD), and play the copy when you want to listen to it. Use a turntable like the Stanton St8-80, with a "78" stylus, and digitize it to a computer for transfer to CD.

I have found several 78 discs that my grandfather's barbershop quartet recorded to. Can I use any record player or do I need a special setup to get the best audio reproduction from these discs.

Thanks,
Steve

Hi Tim S.

Thank you for your prompt response. I am not too familiar with this process, but i'll try to send you a picture or scan.

Sincerely,
Clayton

Hi Clayton,

Is there any way you can take a photo of the disc, either with a digital camera or put it on top of a flatbed scanner and make make a scan of the record? and then either send in e-mail, or post it somewhere. Perhaps looking at it might give us some clues. How large is it? Is it a 12-inch, and does it have several songs, as tracks, like an LP?

12/12/06


Hi, i have been doing some research on Audiodisk recording blanks and came across your website! it's great i did not know other people were into collecting and researching them. A long time ago i discovered i a record collection given to me around 1970 a acetate Audiodisk blank recording all that is marked on it is "secret tapes." When played on an old record player at the time sounded a little "tinny" and is aluminium under lacquer. The music is Bob Dylan's Basement tapes a little before these were actually released to the public. Can you tell me more about it ? or speculate?

Thank you,

Sincerely,

Clayton F. Bearden

RE: what an actual vintage acetate cuttter might be worth

First of all, by "worth", I take it you mean how much you might be able to sell one for if you had one, or if you wanted to buy one, how much would you typically expect to pay (as opposed to what an antique price guide might list as a quote). Right? If so, first it depends on if it actually works. By 'works', I mean the machine can actually cut grooves into blanks and record actual audio that can be played back by a record player (again, many sellers deceptively define 'works' differently than what people expect they mean.... they say something 'works' if even just a light comes on the machine when you plug it in and turn it on). If a cutter actually "works", like a brand-new machine, they would typically sell for $200 and up (actually more like $300 and up). My experience is that most machines sold on ebay, and by dealers, have too many problems that prevent them from actually cutting grooves into blanks with playable audio without serious restoration work....and all too often these will even be sold for $200-$250 even though they don't actually "work" in the sense the buyer is expecting.

hey there!
just wondering what an actual vintage acetate cutter might be worth?
thanks!

27,000+ vinyl records online,100,000 in stock. All styles,all conditions,all prices. Catalog updated a few times a week. Professional grading,and packaging,in business since 1991. Browse and order online at www.finylvinylrecords.com or http://finylvinylrecords.musicstack.com or send wantlists to finylvinyl@sasktel.net Bulk 45's as low as 10 cents each and bulk LP's as low as 50 cents each are also available. Thanks for your time,hope to hear from you.
 
                                                  
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hello gustavo please email me privately about the general industries recorder

julians treatment. hi i have a 2 sided acetate of julians treatment soldiers & stranger, can anyone give me any info about this acetate

Hiya folks..
Can anyone tell me about Mirror Record Corp., and the blank mirror records they produced? Thanks very much, and happy Labor Day!

hello audiophiles today on ebay I just listed a Presto J5 record cutter, uncut records and many needle. The Presto cutter item number is 190005746542 to find the rest just look at my other auctions.

Hi Rolf:
            I have one.It`s similar to wilcox-gay recorder turntable. It permits to make good records.It was used for making home records.

Hello

I need some help with a GENERAL INDUSTRIES RECORDER. NOT INSTALLED just the unit, does any one have any experience with these. attn: Gustavo Walter Calderari I saw you asking about this on another site, do you have one?
thanks
RQLF

   
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I have 9 78 records that are from 1948-1950's that are Radio talk shows. Some of the characters are Laurel and Hardy, Jimmy Stewart and such. Wad trying to find a value for these records. Does any one have any idea of what they are worth.

Hi! Pleased to find this website! I recently found a 45rpm on a National Hollywood disc. Songs are "Lets Stop Pretending" and "Please Don't Call Me Wolfie, Wolfie". Jay Day and Joe Parr are credited as singers, but the group Vel-Tones is also written on the disc. I tried and tried to find something on this recording, but of course found nothing. Haven't had a chance to listen to it, but will do so this weekend! Who knows what may be on this! I'm familiar with the Vel-Tones, but didn't find anything about the men listed as vocalists. Since discovering this site, I will now have to dig out the other acetates I have and share them with you! What a find! Denise O.

"R" wrote:
> THANKS TIM, WOW, that movie was excellent. o.k. so the acetate comes
> first cut from a lathe, then a record is pressed from that--test
> pressing--then after washing ect.. comes the master in which all the
> records are made. On a side note i had glass based acetates before.

Actually the test pressing would be the first record pressed after a stamper is made, several steps after the acetate cut from the lathe.


> 2nd question: Have you ever heard of anyone having an acetate of Jerry
> Lewis and Dean Martin's cursing blooper outakes from the Caddy movie. I
> know the material exists and you can get it on cd or whatever but have
> you ever heard of someone with a record of it. I have a an aluminum
> acetate of it. The other side is just music. I can only assume that this
> is one of the acetate dub plates from the studio from time of it's
> recoding? Maybe, Maybe not? Rare or common?

This is the first I've heard of it and it sounds like an interesting, rare, and unique find. It's hard to give it a monetary value, unless you put it up for auction, or find an appraiser.

> 3rd question: Do you still have the section for posting audio of weird
> acetates? I have a few... thanks.......

I can still post audio on my web page but haven't in awhile. http://archaicrecords.com
If you have one interesting you'd like to share you could e-mail it and I could post it. I haven't had time to post any more lately. Also, now that archive.org exists, that would be an excellent (perhaps the best) place to post rare recordings, with a "creative commons" license.

Edited by author 05-30-2006 11:57 PM
THANKS TIM, WOW, that movie was excellent. o.k. so the acetate comes first cut from a lathe, then a record is pressed from that--test pressing--then after washing ect.. comes the master in which all the records are made. On a side note i had glass based acetates before.

2nd question: Have you ever heard of anyone having an acetate of Jerry Lewis and Dean Martin's cursing blooper outakes from the Caddy movie. I know the material exists and you can get it on cd or whatever but have you ever heard of someone with a record of it. I have a an aluminum acetate of it. The other side is just music. I can only assume that this is one of the acetate dub plates from the studio from time of it's recoding? Maybe, Maybe not? Rare or common?

3rd question: Do you still have the section for posting audio of weird acetates? I have a few... thanks.......

R,
There are many ways to answer this, but I'll give it a try.
A lacquer and "acetate" are the same thing, and also sometimes called a "dub plate." it can be recorded on home equipment or in a studio. It is a one-of-a-kind, or master, record cut on a cutting lathe. A lacquer or "acetate" by a known band would have most likely been recorded (cut) in a studio. A test pressing would be the first record, or one of a handful of records, pressed in a record press. To understand the entire process, watch this video: http://www.archive.org/details/CommandP1942
It shows how RCA pressed records in 1942 - at that time, they pressed records with shellac material (mainly for the 78-RPM speed), but when they started making 33 1/3 RPM albums, they switched to a softer vinyl material. Vinyl records were (and are) made pretty much the same as the shellac records from 1942, but also with the additional step (usually) of recording to tape first.

HELLO, I HAVE A QUESTION,
WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A TEST PRESSING, LACQUERS AND THE ACETATE HOME RECORDING DISCS. WHAT'S THE PROCESS OF MAKING A RECORD? I ASK ALSO BECAUSE I FIND "HOME RECORDING DISCS ACETATES" THAT WOULD HAVE A KNOWN BAND ECT.. SO DID SOMEONE RECORD A RECORD THEY HAD AT HOME OR IN A STUDIO OR ARE THOSE ACETATES/LACQUERS A COPY OF THE TEST PRESSING OR WHATEVER OTHER POSSIBILITIES MAY EXIST?

Matthew, this does sound most interesting. I am not really sure, but my guess is it could possibly be extremely difficult to be able to release a CD of this without breach of copyright, unless you sell it outright to EMI - it's hard to say if even that would be a good idea, if you want to get the most value from it.

Good afternoon,

I was wondering if you could help in relation to a record I currently own. It is a steel 33rpm 10 inch acetate of the UK Royal Variety Performance 1963 (Beatles tracks on one side, Cliff-Richard and the Shadows on the other), semi-professinoally done. I believe that it is not a recording directly from the television as there are fades and some professional work done to the disc. However there is no record label - the only identifying mark is a code number 266 AA.

I have spoken to BBC Grams Archives, EMI Archives and ITV who have all claimed that the record is not oue of theirs. I have come to the coclusion that it is a 'semi-professional cut' cerated by a recording house in London in 1963/4.

I have also spoken to the valuer, Stephen Maycock at Bonhams who has confirmed that this particular record was never commercially relesed and that the disc I hold appears to be unique, although some of the tracks have been released on the Beatles Anthology album, recorded seperately. (The recording perspective and quality do not match between my disc and the Anthology CD.)

I am now torn as to what to do next - I have not managed to trace the original copyright owner and am keen to have the record cleaned and mastered for me to release as a commercial CD (in effect finishing the job). However, I will need some assistance to ensure that legalities are taken care of and am looking to others with acetates to find out what I can do next. If I release this commercially as a CD I know that I need to ensure that there is no breach of any copyright, and that the appropriate artists are paid.

I would be grateful if you could send me any relevant information and point me in the right direction.

Kind regards,

Matthew Bennett
Adr: 12 Patterdale Drive, Warndon, Worcester. WR4 9HR. Tel: 01905 23069

im trying to find a 60's record that was shapped into a football. please if anyone knows the album please email me at strlove009@yahoo.com. PLEASE!!

I have several Audiodisc records featuring "The Crystal Sounds of Charlie Cox"(big band). The labels say they were recorded in Chicago around 1951. I am interested in selling them if anyone is interested.

I am at the library & don't have the records here to refer to(I just found this website). There are several singers accompanying the band.

If anyone is interested, I can give you more information.

Edited by author 05-06-2006 02:13 PM
I have an old, huge acetate from 1946, recorded at L.A. radio station KLAC featuring Benny Goodman, Gene Kelly and Dave Dexter. It is in an 'audiodiscs" sleeve, has a hand-written label, dated 9/15/46 and the grooves appear to be in remarkable condition.

I would appreciate any further information anyone might have about this record. Images can be found at: http://velvetelvis.net/miscimgs/photos/pac.../goodman_vinyl1.jpg and http://velvetelvis.net/miscimgs/photos/pac.../goodman_vinyl2.jpg

Thanks. You can reach me at sd@NOSPAMredhare.com (remove NOSPAM)
Scott

penis

I am looking for an old exercise 78 RPM from the 1970's or '60's which I owned and can't remember the name. It was a woman I believe her first name was Bonnie but no sure. She went through most exercises geared toward women. I am now 70 years old and still in "great" shape (sorry) but true and have never stopped trying to be healthy and staying in shape. My daughter says I'm her role model and remembers as a little girl exercising with me to the record I'm now looking for. She now is a personal trainer and owns a gym and would love to have a copy of that record to frame in her gym. I know this is a hard call since it was not a popular record. Anyone out there who could help, please e me at peeandem1@aol.com. Thanks

Larry, exactly. That is one of my original reasons for posting these - in the hopes someone will recognize names or what-not. I have many more. Although I have little spare time any more to bother with posting these, my next goal is to post a lot more, and put them on archive.org instead of my own webspace (archive.org has unlimited space, available for free posting of creative commons media). see http://archive.org

Re: Tim S.,...those old boring recordings...if you ever were able to determine who was on the disc, they may have a descendent that would be blown away to hear Granny's voice.

I just purchased a Packard Bell Phonocord model 1052 portable at an estate sale. I know nothing about them and need some info. There doesn't seem to be a power cord! It has all of the parts in it and has a few 45 size records (some recorded and some NOS). Light rust on the metal components. I also found the operating instructions for a model 1063 console phonocord.Thanks in advance for any info you can give me. Chris

TAMMY EMAIL ME AT AFRIKANVYBZ@YAHOO.COM ABOUT THAT WILCOX & GAY MACHINE

Tammy,
Can you take a digital photo of it? Also, do you know if it works, how well it works, etc? Do you have a specific model #? Does it have a cutting stylus with it, or several stylii?

Edited by author 03-10-2006 11:16 PM
I have a Wilcox & Gay "recordio" machine in a mahogany cabinet, also about 50-60 records that came with it.
Does anyone know where I can go to see what this thing is worth, or possibly a buyer?

Check out The Secret Society of Lathe Trolls for a great forum on all the topics discussed here: http://lathetrolls.phpbbweb.com/lathetrolls.html

Tony, I've been looking for many years. They are not easy to come by. They are posted on ebay from time-to-time. Expect to pay around $150-200 for a low quality machine that doesn't work (such as missing a working motor, or cutting stylus), or $1k or higher for one that's more likely to work. Presto machines are among the best. There's also a $5,000 machine recently made in Germany, but the websites with information about it don't say much.

Can anyone tell me where I can get a recorder? My Dad used to cut records (which I have) but unfortunately I don't know what happened to his machine. Would love to continue the tradition.

Tony

Can anyone tell me if there was a portable twin turntable disc recorder in the 30ies or 40ies? Thank You!
Friedrich Jaecker
friedrich.jaecker@gmx.de

I have a whole archive from years of collecting these homemade records. Some are so dusty and moldy, what is the best way to clean and preserve them?

Hi Gail,

Do you have a picture of your record cutting machine that you would be willing to share? It would be interesting for us to know more.

I would be surprised if anyone else knows about this. It sounds fairly rare.

What kind of ideas are you looking for? Do you want to know how to use it? Do you need a cutting stylus, or blanks?

I have a Virax 78 record cutting machine does anyone know anything about it, there doen't seem to be many other markings on it I reakon about 1950 60 Beautiful cabinet with crystal handles.
Any ideas would be appreciated.

I thought I'd give an update on the Packard Bell Phon-O-cord, it's been about 6 months now and it's just sat in the corner! I pulled the chassis out of the cabinet and found that part of the power supply is burned up, fortunatly it's just resistors and caps, so it should be easy to fix. I sent an e-mail to West Tech Services after finding their web site. Looks like they have steel cutting needles for $15 each, so I'll probably pick one or two up if I get the electronics going. I'm going to get the chassis up and running next, then will start in on the cutter and turn table.

BTW, on the Phillips, post a note on rec.antiques.radio+phono.

-Dan

Anyone into the PHILLIPS RADIO/PHONOGRAPH units?

I have a (rough condition) one that the radio boots up
on, so I am figuring if someone needs parts or tubes
or something it may be of use.

I have to get it out of here soon.

R0LF [Q/::]




  
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I've got several of those red "Edison Diamond Discs" flexis, as well as a broken machine. They were used in dictation machines that recorded on these, and were in use as late as the 1960s. The dictation machine is small, like the size of a book or something (but I'm only going on memory as I have it in storage and haven't seen it in a few years). I have blanks and a couple are used - was able to play them on a standard record player, although it was difficult since the grooves are very shallow -- the speed was somewhere around 20 to 25 RPM. The content of the recordings is boring - worthless outdated business letters or something (but I should dig them out sometime regardless).

Anybody got a Vestax VRX-2000 in here? What's a good price to buy one?

rolf

Vinyl Blanks for sale, Edison Diamond Discs Red Vinyl looks and feels like the Evatone Soundsheets sort of.

Anyone know about these?

make an offer for 1-5

Jake, I've been looking for decades for the very thing you've described. In my experience, unfortunately the answer to your question is "no". So far I bought a Meissner for under $250 but the turntable wound up not working - I understand it wouldn't provide great quality anyway. Replacement heads, mainly stylii, are difficult to find. As for blanks, I have found quite a bit, plus there are new dubplates being made (although a bit expensive). If you have a good cutter with a stylus supplier you can experiment with different materials (margarine tub lids, CDs, and any other plastic discs), although you'll only get the best results with well-made and new dubplates. The Presto cutter is the one to look for. If you have better luck than me, please write back. Thanks for writing.

Hey, I'm looking for a record cutter, old or new, to cut my own vinyl. I'm basically looking for something that's relatively cheap (under $250 would be nice, it's just for personal use basically), and one that's practical for using still, like replacement heads, and useable blanks are still fairly easy to find. It can cut dubplates, real records, anything, as long as it's decent quality. Does such a thing exist? haha, thanks if you can help!

Has anyone made their own transcription disc player? I have a couple old turn table mechanisms, the type that were used in the cheap kids portable players, that just mount in a plywood or fiberboard case, so a tone arm could be mounted anywhere really. I suppose the biggest trick would be making the tone arm longer so that it'd track at a reasonable angle. I've got a box of those old plastic tone arms too, but don't know how well they'd work for such a project.

The only place I know of to check for if and how items are selling is ebay. Right now someone has posted several 16" transcription discs with an asking price (starting bid) of $10 each. Records get more interest, resulting in more bidders/buyers, depending on the content - the popularity of the recording artists featured on the records.

Go to the 'music / records' section of ebay.com and search on "transcription". Click on "completed listings" and you'll see what records have sold in the past month.
Recently, a transcription disc containing George Jones music sold for $41. A Jim Reeves got a couple of bids, for $14. Burns & Allen, Count Basie, and several others got one bid each, for $10 (each). Several lots of jazz records on this format sold, but something like $170 for a huge stack -- not a whole lot of money for what they were getting.

A lot of several records containing a variety of music was auctioned for a charity - this one only received $3. (shipping less than $10) Ouch! (I wish I had known about that one.... and too bad the charity didn't get more for them.)

On the other extreme, a lot of 100 (16") acetate transcriptions containing Harry S. Truman speeches sold for $678.

I once received a set of transcription discs from someone who found this site, that sent them to me after I paid postage. (recordings from a Maryland yacht club)

I don't know if a book was ever put out about transcription discs, but it would be a worthwhile and interesting subject to publish a book about. If a book about these became popular, the records themselves might get more attention, and higher bids. But that's lots of "ifs". One thing that turns people away is that the records require a special record play to play them, and that can be expensive and a bit hard to find (I've seen a player for sale that's about $250).

I found 14 old "audiodiscs" from the time that my uncle, Willard Lene, was a DJ for WSAI in Cincinnati in the late '40s and early '50s. Are they worth anything or valuable to any one person or group? How do I find useful information about these large discs?

I just found out that there is a new cheap record cutter on the market, for experimentation, for just $60! It is a kit, for cutting grooves onto any plastic round material the size of a CD, including CDs, and anything else you can imagine. Plus, they have a cylinder version, for cutting a phonograph groove containing sound onto dixie cups! Here are the links:
disc version:
http://www.verycoolthings.com/vct/Neo_getp...y.html&itemID=13460
cylinder version:
http://www.verycoolthings.com/vct/Neo_getp...y.html&itemID=13463

Hello everybody, i also like and collect these weird records. I had this site stored under my favorites and then i came back to it just now and saw it is a little different. I have some records i can share. i'm not sure if there is a certain section for this or not but here is one:

"Better days are comming" by johnsons it plays at 78rpm.

http://s43.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3TNWWTMSWZ3OJ0GLGOY5XTL70E

I am looking for the formula for to make the black nitrocellulose lacquer, for to make my own acetate discs for my EMI recording machine. Can some people help me? Thanks.

Thanks Tim! I feel like one of those lucky people on antique roadshow! I have a picture of the label in the middle of the record. If you are interested in seeing it I can send it to you.

Brett.... nope never saw it, and I doubt many people know it exists... but ya know, that's a very rare find and if it really does have any Beatles on it, do not play it any more, unless you have it transferred! and you've got something very valuable! Perhaps it could be auctioned at Christi's in New York. If you sell it I'd suggest taking it to one of those big auction places for valuables ...it should go for at least 10 grand ??? (and don't let too many people know you have it until you plan to auction it)

----------------------------

Rolf, I think you may be confusing this with a negative stamper. No, records are not cut in a negative manner.... it is only possible to cut inside-out if the lathe has that option, and if it does, it would give you the option to cut outside in as well.

A stamper is made from the dub plate that is cut. The stamper would have ridges instead of grooves. It is possible to play a negative stamper, by playing it backwards, and let the stylus ride on one ridge edge - you'd only hear one channel, but people rarely have a need to play these if a pressed record or dub-plate is available.

Tim S. - Thanks for the recommendation on th4e Stanton Str8-80. I'll definitely look into that. Cheers!

Yes you are right each record master is bigger than
the intended finished size. I know the Vestax cuts
Dub-Plates I am curious if you cut a Master Lacquer
with one of these is it going to end playing inside
out, because I think the Vestax play/record clockwise
only maybe. Is this true? Dubplates are cut clockwise
and Masters are cut counter clock wise?

 Â®olf




--- QuickTopic daily digest
<qtopic+21-NUHic5R23suBD@quicktopic.com> wrote:

>
--QT------------------------------------------------------------- > Messages for the topic "Acetates and other
> "Weird" Records" for 05-03-2005.
> Reply by email or visit
> http://www.quicktopic.com/21/H/NUHic5R23suBD
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------- >
> From: ®olf Time: 02:07 PM
> Hello
>
> anyone here own a vestax vrx2000 or know anyone who
> does? I am
> curious about if it is true you can cut a master
> lacquer on one
> of those? What is the difference between a master
> and a
> dubplate? Why does a 12" record master get cut on a
> 14" disc?
>
> ®olf
>
------------------------------------------------------------
> From: important records Time: 02:45 PM
> great questions I'd also love to have an answer to.
>
> john
> ________________________________________
> www.ImportantRecords.com
>
> exclusive recordings from:
> + Acid Mothers Temple + ANP + Barbez + Beequeen +
> Noam Chomsky + Diane Cluck + Jack Dangers + The
> Dresden Dolls + Fe-Mail + Hafler Trio + Henry Jacobs
> +
> Hyperjinx Tricycle + Daniel Johnston + King Missile
> +
> Kimya Dawson + Kawabata Makoto + Larsen + Merzbow +
> Muslimgauze + KK Null + Space Machine + Genesis
> P-Orridge
> + Wolf Eyes + Piano Magic + Ikebana +
> $5.00 Important Records T Shirts
> __________________________________________
> < replied-to message removed by QT >
>
------------------------------------------------------------
> From: important records Time: 02:49 PM
> Since I've just posted I should introduce myself. My
> name is
> John, I have a presto lathe which I still haven't
> got up and
> running and I'm really excited that there is a forum
> for this
> type of discussion.
>
> Has anyone out there seen the lathe cuts done by the
> noise-rock
> band Wolf Eyes? I recently got one from them that
> was cut into a
> laser disc. It actually sounded amazing. They're a
> noise group
> so the fidelity isn't always that essential, but
> this sounded
> like a quality cut. Has anyone else had any luck
> cutting into
> alternatives to vinyl?
>
> best,
> john
> ________________________________________
> www.ImportantRecords.com
>
> exclusive recordings from:
> + Acid Mothers Temple + ANP + Barbez + Beequeen +
> Noam Chomsky + Diane Cluck + Jack Dangers + The
> Dresden Dolls + Fe-Mail + Hafler Trio + Henry Jacobs
> +
> Hyperjinx Tricycle + Daniel Johnston + King Missile
> +
> Kimya Dawson + Kawabata Makoto + Larsen + Merzbow +
> Muslimgauze + KK Null + Space Machine + Genesis
> P-Orridge
> + Wolf Eyes + Piano Magic + Ikebana +
> $5.00 Important Records T Shirts
> __________________________________________
> < replied-to message removed by QT >
>
------------------------------------------------------------
> From: Tim S. Time: 03:11 PM
> Hi John,
>
> I, like you, would also like to know of someone who
> has the
> VRX2000. It's unfortunate it's so expensive.
>
> Although I'm no expert, my impression is that the
> extra inch
> that the 14" lacquer creates is for the plating
> process. I
> found a lacquer for a 45rpm single cut onto a
> larger-size record
> (a 10" I think).
>
> I didn't know that Wolf Eyes had one of these
> records! They are
> cut by "T. Harper" of the noise band Nautical
> Almanac. I have
> friends who know those guys.... one of the mutual
> friends has
> the Nautical Almanac album that's on a CD-R, where
> there's like
> 40-50 minutes (or so) of digital audio but the rest
> of the disc
> has a phonograph groove cut into it (with a unique
> recording on
> every disc) from a Presto lathe. The web page is
> here:
>
http://www.heresee.com/twigharper/lathe/lathemain.htm
>
------------------------------------------------------------
> From: Kathypr@microsoft.com Time: 04:38 PM
> I have run across some vintage records my
> grandfather cut - I
> believe from the 30's and 40's. I'm trying to
> identify what type
> they are, and more importantly - any recommendations
> for where I
> might get the audio transfered from these. I
> haven't played
> them as 1) no turntable, and 2) don't want to risk
> damaging the
> discs.
>
> Some are Presto USA labels and some are The
> Recordisc Corp (395
> Broadway, New York City)
> One of the labels says A Presto Monogram Disc
> We think all of these recordings are recorded inside
> out. I
> believe some are vinyl and some are metal with a
> plastic coating
>
>
> Most are recorded both sides - a few one side only
> 2 of the 6 1/2" records are red. all others are
> black
> (1) 12" record
> (4) 6 1/2"
> (12) 8"
> (6) 10"
> (11) 6"
> I did find an insert that said to play back with Red
> Shank steel
> needles because they are shaped to fit the groove
> made by Presto
> cutting needles. It said do not play back with thorn
> or wooden
> needles.
>
> Thanks in advance for any pointers or help you can
> provide.
>
------------------------------------------------------------
> From: Tim S. Time: 09:50 PM
> Kathypr, thank you for your post. That sounds like a
> most
> interesting collection. You are lucky your
> grandfather recorded
> them and that you have them, and they are in the
> right hands.
>
> I just obtained what I found to be the perfect
> turntable for
> transferring these to CD, the Stanton Str8-80, which
> converts
> records directly to digital; it even plays "78s",
> and I even
> bought a special stylus for the larger grooves.
>
> The old instructions you have for playing these with
> "steel
> needles" worked for that time period, as that was
> all they had
> back then, but we have better equipment today which
> does less
> damage to the records, so the steel-needle playback
> is longer
> appropriate.
>
> I've asked around about the laser turntable, which
> is a $10,000
> unit and plays records with a laser, but I was told
> the laser is
> not geared to play the variety of odd-sized grooves
> that these
> home recordings were cut with (not to mention out of
> most
> people's price range). Then there's the nuclear
> particle beam
> accelerator at Berkeley labs, but that doesn't
> appear to be
> available to the public for having records
> converted. So, I've
> decided the best method of choice is the Stanton.
>
------------------------------------------------------------
>
_________________________________________________________________ >
=== message truncated ===



  
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Hi just stumbled across your site. I have a really cool old beatles record that I think may be acetate. My mom got it from attending their press conference in seattle in 1964. Its really heavy and is just a recording of the press conference with a typed label with the date of the press conference. Has anyone seen anything like this?

Edited by author 05-03-2005 09:52 PM
Kathypr, thank you for your post. That sounds like a most interesting collection. You are lucky your grandfather recorded them and that you have them, and they are in the right hands.

I just obtained what I found to be the perfect turntable for transferring these to CD, the Stanton Str8-80, which converts records directly to digital; it even plays "78s", and I even bought a special stylus for the larger grooves.

The old instructions you have for playing these with "steel needles" worked for that time period, as that was all they had back then, but we have better equipment today which does less damage to the records, so the steel-needle playback is no longer appropriate.

I've asked around about the laser turntable, which is a $10,000 unit and plays records with a laser, but I was told the laser is not geared to play the variety of odd-sized grooves that these home recordings were cut with (not to mention out of most people's price range). Then there's the nuclear particle beam accelerator at Berkeley labs, but that doesn't appear to be available to the public for having records converted. So, I've decided the best method of choice is the Stanton.

I have run across some vintage records my grandfather cut - I believe from the 30's and 40's. I'm trying to identify what type they are, and more importantly - any recommendations for where I might get the audio transfered from these. I haven't played them as 1) no turntable, and 2) don't want to risk damaging the discs.

Some are Presto USA labels and some are The Recordisc Corp (395 Broadway, New York City)
One of the labels says A Presto Monogram Disc
We think all of these recordings are recorded inside out. I believe some are vinyl and some are metal with a plastic coating

Most are recorded both sides - a few one side only
2 of the 6 1/2" records are red. all others are black
(1) 12" record
(4) 6 1/2"
(12) 8"
(6) 10"
(11) 6"
I did find an insert that said to play back with Red Shank steel needles because they are shaped to fit the groove made by Presto cutting needles. It said do not play back with thorn or wooden needles.

Thanks in advance for any pointers or help you can provide.

Hi John,

I, like you, would also like to know of someone who has the VRX2000. It's unfortunate it's so expensive.

Although I'm no expert, my impression is that the extra inch that the 14" lacquer creates is for the plating process. I found a lacquer for a 45rpm single cut onto a larger-size record (a 10" I think).

I didn't know that Wolf Eyes had one of these records! They are cut by "T. Harper" of the noise band Nautical Almanac. I have friends who know those guys.... one of the mutual friends has the Nautical Almanac album that's on a CD-R, where there's like 40-50 minutes (or so) of digital audio but the rest of the disc has a phonograph groove cut into it (with a unique recording on every disc) from a Presto lathe. The web page is here: http://www.heresee.com/twigharper/lathe/lathemain.htm

Since I've just posted I should introduce myself. My name is John, I have a presto lathe which I still haven't got up and running and I'm really excited that there is a forum for this type of discussion.

Has anyone out there seen the lathe cuts done by the noise-rock band Wolf Eyes? I recently got one from them that was cut into a laser disc. It actually sounded amazing. They're a noise group so the fidelity isn't always that essential, but this sounded like a quality cut. Has anyone else had any luck cutting into alternatives to vinyl?

best,
john
________________________________________
www.ImportantRecords.com

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great questions I'd also love to have an answer to.

john
________________________________________
www.ImportantRecords.com

exclusive recordings from:
+ Acid Mothers Temple + ANP + Barbez + Beequeen +
Noam Chomsky + Diane Cluck + Jack Dangers + The
Dresden Dolls + Fe-Mail + Hafler Trio + Henry Jacobs +
Hyperjinx Tricycle + Daniel Johnston + King Missile +
Kimya Dawson + Kawabata Makoto + Larsen + Merzbow +
Muslimgauze + KK Null + Space Machine + Genesis P-Orridge
+ Wolf Eyes + Piano Magic + Ikebana +
$5.00 Important Records T Shirts
__________________________________________
< replied-to message removed by QT >

Hello

anyone here own a vestax vrx2000 or know anyone who does? I am curious about if it is true you can cut a master lacquer on one of those? What is the difference between a master and a dubplate? Why does a 12" record master get cut on a 14" disc?

®olf

Sounds like an interesting find, the glass-based audiodisc. There is no way to know what the recording is until you play it - that is the point to my collecting these - you never know what you have until you play it, especially if there's no writing on it. The numbering/code system only pertains to the blank (these are not pressed - think of CDRs or blank audiocassettes and how you can record whatever you want onto them ... same idea). Yes, you can play these on a modern turntable, and that's the preferred method. The Stanton Str8 series turntables (model 80 and higher) are made to play these, and for transferring the recording to digital audio. A non-contact player is the laser turntable (but that's in the $10,000+ range and won't necessarily track these kinds of discs properly).

I am an avid vinyl collector with no experience as to what the acetate record is or what its about. in a purchase on 4-12-05 I picked up an audiodisc record. I have not listened to it, it has no label, but has the audiodisc brand and new york along with a few numbers on it, the record is a bluish black. I bought it($0.50) because it seems to be made of glass and is different. The grooving and condition is impeccable. Can this be played on a modern turntable and how do I find out what kind of recording is on it if I dont play it,i.e. is the numbering a code system like vinyl records have? Any help appreciated. E- mail at jumpinjahosefat@yahoo.com

Thanks for the reply. For some reason I was under the impression that the '40s vintage discs were intended to last a little longer, dozens of plays at least. Thanks for the link to the site showing the soundscriber, it's very interesting. I'd love to experiment with different types of media as long as the risk of damaging the cutter itself is minimal. I would still need to find cutting stylii as well. Unfortunatly the Packard Bell is going to be a work in progress for a while. I tested out the chassis, and get a little background hum, but no audio signal getting through for some reason. I plan to pull the chassis and speaker out of the cabinet so I can refinish it, then I'll (hopefully) get the chassis going again too. I did find a similar set to mine, it's got a different (much larger) cabinet, but looks like it's got the same chassis and the changer is the same as what I have, so I assume mine is correct for this model. It's at: http://www.grandcanyontuberadio.com/packardbell/pb3.html
I'll have to check back once I've made a little more progress on mine. Thanks again.

-Dan

Hi Dan, thanks for writing. I'm afraid that the discs these cut are the "duplications masters" you mentioned - they don't survive through many plays. yes, it's true of '40s vintage discs too. These are the "acetates" we've been referring to. For playing, I would suggest, as you suspected, that playing them with lighter tracking turntables is best, and your old Packard Bell player is likely to damage them.

 As for blanks, it is possible to experiment with different materials, depending on how well your cutting stylus holds up. compact discs are the chepest medium, but I'm not sure if the material is harder than "acetates" and if it is likely to wear down your cutting stylus - others have experimented with CDs with good results (of course you have to rig up an adaptor for the different hole size). Finding the stylii is the trickiest part.

Your record cutter acquisition sounds interesting. Please take some photos, even a video clip of some cutting action, and send it if you can.

Take a look at this page showing experiments using different blank media in a "soundscriber" record embosser:
http://www.geocities.com/amishfan/soundscriber.html

Oops, in my previous message, I ment to say that I would worry about playing anything, even shellac, on the Packard Bell's origional changer.

-Dan

Hi, I'm new here and have a couple questions I hope someone can answer. I bought a turn table w/ record cutter a couple years back from a repair shop that closed in the '70s, and just last weekend I ended up with a Packard Bell "phonOcord" with a newer record changer installed. It looks like I was lucky and the cutter I have is the correct one for the Packard Bell. Now that I have what is hopefully going to be a complete and functional cutter, I'm thinking about finding a cutting stylus and blank discs for it. I see a couple places sell new discs, and it looks like they are intended to be duplication masters and don't survive through many plays. Was this true of the '40s vintage discs too? Also, I've collected a few home recorded records over the years, and after reading this site I'm wondering about how to best play them (short of using a laser). I would worry about playing shellac on it, much less anything else more fragile, as I suspect it wouldn't be very kind to records. I would think a '70s era or newer changer that tracked light would be best. I'm going to try to keep checking back, but can be reached at classicelectronicsguy@yahoo.com too.

-Dan

PS. After reading some of the previous messages, I can help w/ quad record playback, and have some information on the General Industries cutter.

Jay, what you are describing ARE "acetates"! First, remember that "acetate" is an incorrect term, especially in regards to professionally recorded ones - they are, rather, LACQUERS. These things DO have a metal base, yes! You are right, they are stiff, especially professional ones. There should be no "gunk" on the needle when you play them - "flash" material only comes off an "acetate" disc when it (as a blank) is RECORDED onto (a.k.a. "cut"). And, apparently, the term "fragile" has either been misdefined, misapplied, or misunderstood. If you hear surface noise or cutting machine noice, then that is another clue that you have an "acetate" - or lacquer.

They are "fragile" in the sense that you cannot play them more than a dozen times. If you don't believe that, then go ahead and play them to their demise, but you certainly won't want to do that if clients are involved. Also, the archaic home-recorded ones from the 1940s (that is the focus of this website and forum) do have fragile tendencies in every sense of the word - lacquer tends to chip off the metal base (for starters). But what you have are professionally-recorded lacquers, which will not have those problems. The main thing you have to worry with is the fact that you can play them only a few times, and you better transfer them as soon as possible (before they suffer from more plays). Each time you play them, you wear down the groove significantly, because the material (that makes up the recording surface layer) is made of soft substances, typically castor oil.

Well, the acetates arrived. Upon examinaging them i question if they are real acetates or what. They are made of metal, that i can tell, the edges are silver, it has a slight bluish tint...but the thing that gets me is everyone is saying how fragile these things are, these look pretty solid. I was expecting gunk on the needle, but it was completely perfectly clean. I mean, these things were made in 1970. I'm actually able to pick up the noise from the cutting machine...and the orignal surface noise of the masters.

thanks for the advice.

There are thousands of dealers for needles/stylii now, but I saw a list of specially cut stylii (styluses) at kabusa.com, that had prices in the $125-$250 range each:
http://kabusa.com/frameset.htm?index.htm
What I was looking at were stylii for Stanton cartridges.
I saw the list (of custom-made stylii) on this page just a couple of weeks ago but they may have removed them since. Currently all that is listed is a generic stylus. LPgear charges just $20 for the same stylus that is over $60 here.
I think I read somewhere that Stanton forced them to discontinue custom-made stylii, probably for copyright infringement or something. They were custom-made to play particular archaic records, one for Edison diamond discs, another for records from 1900-1910, another for another decade, etc.

Well, i don't think i can get my client to shell out 17 grand for the laser turntable..it'd be nice...but, sadly, not exactly something i'm going for.

I am however sitting here looking at my cartridges, I've got a Audio Technica AT92E, a ATU13L2 and a RadioShack RX1500 that is manufatured by Audio Technica...i don't have any specs on them other than tracking force. i'm not sure which is the better of the three cartridges, althouth the 13L2 and RX1500 take the exact same styli. the RX1500 currently has a .4 x .7 mil i believe, and the AT92e i'm pretty sure has an Audio Technica ATN3472SE Stylus, which is a .3 x .7, th3 13L2 is one i pulled off a Pioneer table, and actually, the stylus support (or whatever you call the metal bar that actually holds the stylus) was bent, i've not put it on any records, assummed it was old and worn.

I guess my biggest question is what needle do you guys reccommend, i was looking at needle doctor and am thinking about getting a liner contact needle, which is supposed to have better contact with the record.

Let me know your suggestions, and hey, if anyone out there knows of a better P-Mount cartridge, let me know and i'll look into it.

I'm not sure what solution is the best to clean them (perhaps someone else does?) but, I do know that these lacquers are usually made of something like castor oil (plasticized), so your suspicions are correct to hesitate cleaning them with the same stuff you clean vinyl or shellac.

There's a link to the laser turntable on the page. I've been following this since the early 80s when it was announced as being developed. I've heard mixed reviews - some say it doesn't necessarily play as well as you'd think, plus someone posted elsewhere some disatisfaction with placing an order for one (see the link).

The best way to play these (rare one-of-a-kind records) is out of most of our hands: the nuclear particle beam generator at Berkeley Labs. If anyone reading this ever gets a connection with them, I would be most grateful. :-)

This is all very interesting.

I'm chiming in because my services have been requested by someone who has some "professionally" produced 45RPM acetates from the 70's. He said they were pressed after the master tapes were finalized because the band wanted an oppertunity to hear what thier music owuld sound like on vinyl. He's asked me to transfer them into a PC in an attempt to recreate the lost master tapes.

my major question is on how to clean them. I alays clean my vinyl using a home made solution of 1 part isopropyl (50%) to 4 parts distilled water, applied using a DiscWasher brush. But since these things are fragile, i'm thinking the solution will strip things from the records.

obviously from reading, the majority of acetates are 78's, and i right now don't have a turntable with the equipment to playback 78's. Although, I do plan on trying to acquire a laser-turntable that plays back 78 RPM records.

Anyone who hasn't heard of this, it uses two lasers focused on each side of the groove wall. It's still a completely analog playback process. But the advantage of this on acetates is that there is NO wear on the record. I'm surprised I've not heard of this being done on a professional scale, and while the table runs a whopping 17 grand, I'm still consdering getting one.

for the time being, I'm doing all my work on an Technics SL-Q200 with an Audio Technica AT92E cart with a .3 x .7 mil stylus. I also have a Radio Shack RX1500 (made by Audio TEchnica) with a .4 x .8 mil stylus.

If anyone could offer some sugggestions on how to properly play these back, i'd appreciate it. I've not done as much reasearch on acetates as i probably should have, but up till now I've been working with mostly standard pressings.

you can contact me via email at dewdude(at)gmail(dot)com

Thanks.

The quadraphonic turntable thing sounds interesting. I have one, that has a built-in preamp, but one of the channels is dirty (capacitor or something is shot).

If you've been searching the internet and didn't find any schematics, there may not be any posted online. It's time to go to the library. Popular Electronics had articles about quadraphonic turntables and receivers in the early 70s, so I would suggest checking the index to that periodical. There may even be schematics there.

Good luck and I would be interested if you find anything, and have success building one.

HI, I'm tring to find the schematics for a quadrophonic phonograph player. I would like to build one for my senior project, but so far I can't find anything on how to make one. If anyone here has any idea would he please reply with the information. Thanks

Edited by author 01-19-2005 07:53 PM
As for your other question, "can record cutters actually cut into surfaces other than acetate":

First of all, be sure you realize that the term "acetate" is technically incorrect. It is now only a nickname, for what is really called "lacquer". When these type of discs were originally created in the early 20th century (not sure of any correct dates), the first material used was made of an acetate, so the name stuck. Better materials were eventually created, but people continued to use the original nickname. Although technically incorrect, I may continue to use the nickname "acetate", in quotes, so we know what we're talking about, but please realize that the proper term today is lacquer.

The lacquer that is usually used for "acetates" today is very soft, meant to create stampers from, or just as a test to play just a handful of times. I read on another website that it is made of castor oil. Playing one of these a number of times quickly wears down the grooves.

As noted on my page, Transco and Apollo still make blanks, also called "dub plates", and they are expensive.

Other materials have been experimented with. I understand that compact discs, including CDRs, can be used to cut into. The plastic is harder than lacquer, so I am sure it will wear down the cutting stylus quickly. [Since the hole is larger, of course, you have to rig up some way to clamp it down onto the cutting turntable, and then eye-ball center it onto the record player.]

Cutting stylii for cutting lathes are expensive, and have to replaced often, regardless of what material you use ("acetate" lacquer, CD, etc.)

As for obtaining an actual record cutter for recording your own (which I intend to note this on my page), there are a number of possibilities;

1) Archaic home machines from the 1940s-1950s, such as the Meissner. These cannot offer any kind of high fidelity sound, and it is hard to find one in 100% working order. They show up from time-to-time on ebay.

2) Record cutting lathes. These are also occassionally auctioned off on ebay, such as from recording studios going out of business. They are usually expensive, and also huge machines requiring a large workshop to house and work with. Also, when a groove is cut into a blank disc, the machine emits "flash", which is the material cut out of the record. This is highly flamable, so it is necessary that the room be a fireproof workshop environment.

3) [I need to add this to links soon] There is a brand-new record cuttter on the market especially designed for cutting records, since the demand has increased due to the phenomena of turntablists/techno/house DJs. They are expensive though: $5,000. But the site I found claimed it did not require lacquer "dub plates", but they had their own kind of blank that was cheaper, more durable and similar to a pressed record that could be played multiple times, and the stylii were cheaper since they didn't wear out as much as traditional lathes. I would highly recommend checking it out. It totally changes everything for cutting your own records.

Yes, Karl, you are right on target now. That is how the studios, or manufacturers, created records then, as well as now.

Your original question referred to the change of procedure that occurred sometime back around the 1940s or 1950s. In the early half of the 20th century, as I understand it, records were recorded direct-to-disc, cutting directly onto an "acetate" master, which prevented any sort of post-session editing. If a session had to be stopped and a new take begun, a new blank master disc had to be used (whether it was referred to as an "acetate", "wax" record, or whatever), until a take was considered good enough for release and mass production. At some point, magnetic tape technology was good enough for recording onto first, allowing for editing, so this extra step was added (to the record creation process). From then on, the "acetate" master was cut from a master tape.

Or can record cutters actually cut into surfaces other than acetate? I thought I understood how the recording process worked in that they took a master acetate of the recording, plated it, and then used presses to punch out a run of records (maybe with another generation in between to protect the original plated acetate from being used to many times). Didn't they record onto acetate in the studios and then plate the good take to make copies for distribution? Or was there something they used in actually recording a song other than that. I'm not disputing that you're right Tim. I just want to know what it is they used and if it is still available.

Well, since record cutters use acetates, wouldn't studios record their master sessions on acetate prior to the introduction of tape?

The question here is disc records vs. tape. "Acetates" are used only as part of the process of making disc phonograph records. (Phonograph records are still being manufactured today, but for specialized reasons, no longer as mass-produced items. The "acetate", mother, or "dub plate", is still used as part of that process.)

What you are referring to is that back then they recorded direct-to-disc, without going to tape first. By not using tape, they didn't have the hiss problem ("artifact", or media noise) that tapes added.

I'm interested more in the recording studio practice. Maybe it wasn't acetate per se, but I know that in the 1940s they didn't use tape at all in the recording process. For instance, I've noticed that some of the earlier Nat King Cole songs I have on cassette have less hiss and "pops" throughout the song, which seems to fit with the fact that the songs I've noticed this in were recorded in the '40s. If not acetate, then what did they use? I know for sure it wasn't tape. . .

Record manufacturers use "acetate", or lacquer, records to cut master discs, which are used to create the stampers for pressing records. They never really went away.

I think your question would be more understandable if you speak of radio stations rather than "studios". Radio stations used "transcription discs" (similar to "acetates", or a form of them, but were 16-inch records) from the early 20th century until the early 60s. It is radio stations that switched from "acetate" or transcription discs to tape (back in the early 60s) [not "studios"].

it is my assumption that tape was less restricive better fidelity and more recording time the time limit per disk was 3 minutes +/- a minute or so depending on volume and frequency range how ever the 3 minute pop song was born from these limitations
ted

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Why did studios switch from acetate recording over to tape. Was it solely for economic reasons, or for easier editing? Also, what is the cheapest a blank can be had for today?

I'm trying to figure out who the artist might be for
some acetates.

They're 78s, recorded for RCA with the session numbers H07B-0233, -0234, -0235 and -0236, with songs titles (possibly abbreviations) as follows: "Poor You", "Think of Me", "Now I Know" and "You're Gone".

It's a female vocalist- sounds a little like Judy
Garland. Any info greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

 I recently picked up 3 large (12 Inch) 78rpm(?) records with a purple label that says " Zephyr Products Company N.Y.C.".I have not played them. They have the following written on the label in hand:
 
Aug. 1943
Carlton Club
G. Ponting - Piano
J. Lindsey - Guitar
G. Shannon - Drums
J. Morehead - Bass
C. Lynn - Trombone
M. Sloman - Trumpet
 
# 1 lp = Honeysuckle (Rose)
# 2 lp = One O'Clock Jump,
# 3 lp = Devil & The Deep (Blue Sea)
 
There are no letters or numbers etched on them. They look
like original recordings. The grooves look pretty deep.
Any help would be appreciated.

Edited by author 09-14-2004 01:01 PM
Although I don't have a working cutter.... I've been wondering how you would clamp a CD onto the (recording/cutting) turntable. There's probably some kind of clamp that would fit. Since the hole is larger, you'd have to eyeball it to center - unless you create an adaptor. I found that many trays in CD cases have teeth in the center that hold the CD in place that have just the right space between the teeth to make a hole that fits onto a turntable. It might require cutting away the unnecessary part of the tray - to make an adaptor.

Someone showed me a CD made by a "noise" band that has their own lathe. They record their album on CDRs, say, 45 to 50 minutes worth, which leaves enough space to cut a phonograph groove into. They put each CDR onto the lathe and cut a 2-minute or so one-of-a-kind jam in the leftover space. [I'm not sure what they use to clamp the CDs onto the lathe.]

Hey Tim,
    Well Who'd have thought... CDs??? I'll give it a try! I have a Rek-O-Kut M-12-S that's ready for a maiden test cut. Also have a billion or so 16" platters that are recorded on one side only, if someone cares to trade for 12", 10" or 7" blanks.

Hey Tim,

The most difficult to find (in my experience) are the cutting stylii. It depends on your unit, or cutter head.

As for "Experiment-grade" discs - part of it depends on your cutting unit.

The cheapest discs to experiment with cost, well, absolutely nothing! They are available for free, at virtually any grocery store, and even in your mailbox. I'm talking about modern CDs. [AOL advertisment discs are everywhere.] If you can clamp a CD onto your disc cutting unit, you may find you can cut a groove into it. The material is a bit tougher than acetate lacquer, but I've heard there's a lot of success with them. It's even possible to create hybrid discs, that play on both modern CD players and retro record players.

Has anybody found a source for "experiment-grade" acetate discs? And cutter styli (stylus)? Thanks for any tips (ha!)

I've found manuals for (acetate) disc recorders from online sources, such as: http://www.sarrio.com/sarrio/rsman3.html
but this one isn't listed. hmmm....

Hi :
       I need help. I´m looking for the schematic of RCA disc recorder MI 12701/02. Regards. Gustavo Calderari.

as far as i can tell there is not any equalization on this recordio the cutting head seems to be conected to the amplifier out put
directlyif i in fact can find a replacement head i will modify the input and equalize before the audio is amplified and sent to the head
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I´m looking for information about Bell Sound 78 and 45 rpm disc recorder. I´d like to know if this machine has equalization in the crystal cutter head.How is the equalization circuit.Thank You for your help.

i have a wilcox gay recordio with built in am radio
the radio works great but the crystal in the record/
pick up head is disitergrated i would love to use this to make records does any one know of any place where i can get a replacement head for this machine?and cutting needles and play back needlesas well

Hello....just stumbled across three old uncut aluminum base Recordio Discs...they are the deep red ones with the gold & black labels with RECORDIO DISC in all caps. Included in the deal was a cut fibre base one...God knows what might be recorded on it since my turntable has died and I couldn't try it. I'm guessing the age on the uncuts to be circa 1947, but have no idea on the fibre one. It has a red color to it, but may have originally been the yellow/gold (I've not found any made in red)---it was packed in the same sleeve with one of the deep red ones, so I'm guessing it probably faded onto the fibre disc. Kind of an unusual find....I have them listed on Ebay now to see what they might bring.

Steve,
I've got one of these too, but a different recording on the
recorded side. I know someone in town who has another one;
I think he knows more about these than I do - I could ask.
They're probably not too rare, although someone claimed
years ago it was valuable. I'm inclined to think they aren't
extremely common - but - not too scarce among Victor 78s.
-Tim

Edited by author 07-20-2004 04:09 PM
HELLO! I picked up something that may possibly be new but then again who know's. This is a one sided VICTOR RED SEAL record with NIPPER on it. The numbers are DM 531.1 -- 16169-S. On the flip not recorded side is the following; RCA VICTOR embossed with a fancy pattern. Really neat and I'm really hopeing it is really old as I paid quite a bit for it. Thanks in advance...... STEVE
PS>>> CONCERTO IN E MINOR -- YEHUDI MENUHIN
maxfli11@charter.net

More than likely you can claim ownership,
even the copyright - unless someone comes forward,
but the only way they can is if you put it out somehow.
That's one of the advantages to collecting
one-of-a-kind acetates.

the reson i ask, is that i found an amazing acetate of music recorded by the finest french jazzmen which appears to be the ONLY copy of this recording. i wonder what my legal status is regarding this recording - as i am the only person who owns this.

The best way to clean acetates is with distilled water.

for more information go to:
http://www.moremusic.co.uk/links/features/acetate.htm

whats the best way to clean acetates?

Lots of collectible records now on offer!
Huge variety of original, mostly Australian pressings from 1920s-1990s.....
45 rpm, EPs, LPs & 78 rpm records.

For more details, please visit my website:

http://spinauctions.ace-aust.com

I have received from the estate of Wah Ming Chang
 { http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-...&btnG=Google+Search } nearly 75 acetates from the 40's --- can anyone direct us to a possible buyer?

thanks cjogo

Edited by author 06-04-2004 10:21 AM
Personally, I think most acetates are better off being transferred to a modern listenable format so other people can hear them (and the originals should be stored away properly, and that means NO SARAN WRAP and good room temperature). If you really wanted to make money with your acetates, you should transfer them to CDs and sell the CDs, if you know how to market them.

All you can really do is check places like ebay and see what acetates, in general, are selling for, if a sale value is what you want. Really the only recordings that will get a lot of money, or any substantial amount (over $1 per record) are if the recording contains a popular celebrity, and even then it's gotta be a one-of-a-kind recording (if it's a copy of something normally available, you can't expect to sell a record for more than face value of the record itself). Normal non-celebrity records only sell for what typical records sell for in any given place: ebay it may get $1 to $5 plus shipping (or if in a collection, ten to fifty records up to $30 or so), thrift store 50 cents to $1, yard sale no more than 25 cents.

Edited by author 06-04-2004 01:45 AM
I found some old Wilcox-Gay recordings. I can't read alot of the hanwriting. They appear to be from the 40's and one is Gower Champion. It's part of a multi-disc album. They all appear mint. How can I find out if these discs have any value? If you can be of help please email me at c1950sboyny@msn.com. Thx in advance!

I have some questions about the first Acetate record that I have ever come in contact with. I got it at a flea market. It is a 78 that plays from the inside out, and it's made by a company called 'The Gould-Moody Co. Blank recording Division.' Made in the USA. The vinyl on this record is a beautiful shade of purple! There is no label on this, but the sleeve had the following information; MWF 10:15 (This may be the length?) Martz Prof: Williams P.S.II (or 11) 10/25/40. I don't currently have a record player that can play a 78, but I'll let you know about the content as soon as I can. From what I can make out, it appears to be some sort of medical lecture. I heard the words "To instill confidance in the patient." Does anyone know anything about this brand of blanks? Is nineteen forty likely to be the actual year? Does anyone else have a purple acetate? I look forward to your replies.

Hi Mr.:
         I´m looking for information and electronic circuit about EMI 78 rpm disc recorder model # 2300 E. Regards. Gustavo Calderari.

seeking music researchers that are in to researching matrix numbers and master numbers for 50's and 60's vinyl records, especially matrix numbers beginning with ZTSP, ZTSC, ZTSB, etc. Please reply.
Reg Bartlette
reginald@mail2world.com

Hi Mr.:
         I´d like to know how to do good 33 rpm records whith antique recorder machines( bell sound RC 47 ) whith magnetic heads such as the Shure RH2 10 ohms

Here's yet another brand new record cutter, the VRX-2000:

http://www.vestax.com/products/vrx2000.htm

OK Everyone,

Here's a place that manufactures and sells brand new vinyl
record cutters and sells them here:

http://www.hollywooddj.com/hollywooddj/vesvincut.html

and for further discussion on finding record cutters, go here:
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=44209

-Tim

I'm just trying to find a record cutting lathe. does anybody know where i could get a decent one? e-mail me at wolfykid69@hotmail.com

Does anyone know where I can find an acetate recorder? This is probably a naiive, stupid question, but I figured it was worth a shot. If you have any information e-mail me at HawkboyXVI@aol.com

The highest-of-high-tech, most expensive, RECORD PLAYER in existence, plays records using particle physics. Results are spectacular, yielding absolutely the highest quality obtainable from rare records. The method is being used to restore, transfer, and preserve the many thousands of early blues or jazz recordings in the Library of Congress archives. The audio restorationists are physicists at the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory.

Read more here:
http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid...134&tid=141&tid=188

I recently aquired a few acetate recordings at an estate sale. Turns out that these are recordings of Jazz saxaphone great "J.R. Monterose". One is dated Feb 11, 1944. The others have his signature with the song title. Seems that Monterose and his buddy's went to a studio to cut some of their early music. Monterose made it big around 1946. He grew up in Utica NY before hitting the road. I reside in Utica as well and found these recording at an old home estate sale in Utica. Perhaps this is "undiscovered music". Does anyone know what kind of value these might have? Please email me at tvcrewny@adelphia.net
Thanks

I saw recently somewhere on the internet an article about
a laser turntable built with an optical fiber serving as
a stylus, which could be used for playing warped records
or perhaps all kinds of acetates, which would (also) add no
wear at all to the record. Unfortunately such a turntable could never be marketed to the general public, so only the wealthly or organizations with large budgets could ever afford to have one custom built. (If I were to come into money, I would look into it.)
-Tim

FORGOT TO ADD MY EMAIL LAURIELEE8966@AOL.COM CONCERNING OLD ACETATES RECORDED IN 1952. THANKS

 I HAVE SEVEROLD OLD ACETATES RECORDS MY FATHER RECORDED IN 1952, WHEN HE PLAYED MANDOLIN A BLUEGRASS BAND. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IF I COULD GET AT LEAST A COUPLE OF SONGS OFF OF THESE RECORDS. THERE NOT IN THE BEST SHAPE BUT IF I COULD FIND OUT HOW OR WHERE I CAN GET THESE TRANSFERED TO A CD OR TAPE WITHOUT SOME OF THE SCATCHES & NOISE ,OR REMASTEREDS SO I WILL HAVE SOMETHING AUDIBLE. ALSO CAN I PUT THESE ON A NEW PLAYER THAT WILL PLAY THESE TYPE OF 78 RECORDS WITHOUT DAMAGEING THEM? THANKS .

Does anyone know of the Kimberley Phonograph Company? I am tring to figure out the value of a cabinet player model # 100, I recently purchased.(( n2carz1@hotmail.com))

does anyone want a meissner phono recorder. mod. 9-1065. not in very good shape in looks dept. but it lights up when plugged in. turntable turns.radio has big buzz when turned on.first $40.00. plus shipping gets it.EMAIL IS HYOUNG3595@AOL.COM

does anyone have 2 6gw8 vacumm tubs ?? must be reasonable.

Hello, does anyone know about acetates pressed/cut on discs with the label "Nola Recording Studios"? I have a bunch with typewritten lables indicating that they are V-Disc recordings. I am assuming they are recorded FROM V-discs and not V-Disc test pressings or rejected sessions, etc. Any info out there? Thanks.

> I have a box full of Audiodisc Recording discs that have
> recorded radio shows from KOLB in San Francisco, CA. Are they
> worth anything to anyone??? IF so reply to mattadrum@comcast.net

Sure! Do you have an idea what you would charge?
Would you be able to ship UPS ground or Fedex ground?

-Tim

Edited by author 02-03-2004 10:26 PM
I have a box full of Audiodisc Recording discs that have recorded radio shows from KOLB in San Francisco, CA. I believe them to be from the early forties. Are they worth anything to anyone??? IF so reply to mattadrum@comcast.net

gustavo go to ebay and type in meissner and go to
phono and there is the same picture of what i have the
condition is almost the same for the outside box, but
my player looks in better condition, and i have the
blanks, and the needles!!!
let me know ok one way or the other!!
--- QT - Mac McClendon
<qtopic+21-NUHic5R23suBD@quicktopic.com> wrote:
>
--QT------------------------------------------------------------- > Reply by email or visit
>
> http://www.quicktopic.com/21/H/NUHic5R23suBD/m32
>
----------------------------------------------------------------- >
> gustavo, did the pictures get there? Also this
> message is for
> Tim S about the meissner recorder
>
_________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe:
> http://www.quicktopic.com/21/X/NUHic5R23suBD
> Start your own topic in 20 seconds:
> http://www.quicktopic.com |


=====
Always remember, God first in all you do! Have a Blessed day!

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

gustavo, did the pictures get there? Also this message is for Tim S about the meissner recorder

hello argentina! trying to get pictures now getting
alot of response about this , didnt think i would, i
am working on it, and will find out about the shipping
costs ok>
thank you

--- QT - Gustavo Walter Calderari
<qtopic+21-NUHic5R23suBD@quicktopic.com> wrote:
>


=====
Always remember, God first in all you do! Have a Blessed day!

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/
< replied-to message removed by QT >

Hi Mr.McClendon:
                          Sorry my late answer.Iusually check my e-mail once a day, in the morning.I´m writting You from Argentina.I`d like to see the photograps .Also , I´d like to know the price and the shipping cost to Argentina By USA Mail ( surface ).Regards.Gustavo Calderari.


>From: QT - Mac McClendon <qtopic+21-NUHic5R23suBD@quicktopic.com>
>Reply-To: QT topic 21-NUHic5R23suBD
><qtopic+21-NUHic5R23suBD@quicktopic.com>
>To: QT topic subscribers <qtopic+subs@quicktopic.com>
>Subject: Acetates and other "Weird" Records
>Date: 23 Jan 2004 03:25:51 -0000
>

_________________________________________________________________ MSN Amor: busca tu ½ naranja http://latam.msn.com/amor/
< replied-to message removed by QT >

Hello this is Mac again asking about the Meissner Phono-Recorder that I have in my possession
Good condition and still works, with the actual blank records!
I spoke to a gentleman, hope he calls back, if not, someone else may like it
get in touch please
leonardjmcclendon@yahoo.cm

Hello my name is Mac, I live in Waycross,Ga and my mom has a thrift store. We are closing down, and came across an original Meissner Phono-recorder! And it still works! Also, there are some records or acetate blanks still in their original packages. my e-mail is leonardjmcclendon@yahoo.com phone is (912) 285-8248 in the evening or 285-9218 in the mornings
Please someone call me if interested in this great old, and working machine.

I have a PRESTO 8" disc (aluminum with a black outer surface) with the "pink" label. It is a 78 played from the inside out. The recorder's name, along with "K 10TTS" are handwritten on the label. I'm trying to determine when it may have been recorded, since that info was not written on it's label. The recorder passed away in the early 1970s. Can anyone provide a year range Presto made this blank? Any help will be appreciated. Thanks- Jim McDaniel

Anyone wishing to transfer rare records to CD, with audio restoration, should consider having this done professionally with the laser turntable method. The laser serves as the stylus and does not touch the surface of the record, leaving it in the same, original condition. The following laser turntable owners can transfer rare records to CD as a service:

lp2cd, Windermere Florida http://lp2cd.com/
Dr. William R. Stuebe, Ph.D., (Bill Stuebe) Waukegan, IL
Charles Lawson (Washington, DC area)
Andy Obst, Los Alamos, NM
Kelly Thistle, Seattle, WA
Joe Knapp, Great Lakes Records, Brookfield, Wisconsin

Find their addresses here:
http://www.elpj.com/customer/reps.html

It would be best to find a restoration specialist within driving distance, and drive the records to their home or business. If shipping must be done, do not ship rare records in flat record mailers, but only in boxes with plenty of packing material.

One thing people must think about when it comes to value is: what is meant by "value"? I think people subconsciously think of it as a price that something could sell for, within a reasonable amount of time. But this changes according to time and the place of sale. If something is sold at a yard sale, it is priced for quick sale, at about 1/10th of the price that would go on the item if placed at a store for slow sale. If it is sold at auction, it could go at either yard sale value or top dollar, depending upon how many people are at the auction and collect that item. I believe that a "value" placed on a rare record is usually thought to be the top dollar paid by one person at auction, or the top dollar that it had sold for in a store. However, there is no guarantee that more collectors would be willing to pay the same amount... it depends.
So, in determining value, one part of the equation is to determine the market for the item (record in this case): how many buyers are out there for the record?

Edited by author 01-02-2004 10:32 AM
Dear Ron,
I'm not sure it will be possible to determine a value, but it does look like a most interesting record!

I would look for a convention or group of phonograph collectors and ask around what they think it might be worth. Get a proper sample by asking enough people what they would be willing to pay, or what they think other collectors would be willing to pay.

I would start with the Michigan Antique Phonograph Society:
http://www.lrbcg.com/pogo/maps.html

Edited by author 12-30-2003 05:44 PM
I have an "ACERTATE" with an R and a paper back of an Edison "Hit of the Week" record titled "Come to Me". This record has the complete dust jacket and a cover jacket that reads, The Edisonia Co. 57 Halsey Street, Newark, NJ. According to the dust jacket it was only sold a news stands. Does anyone have and idea when it would have been produced and it's value. It is in perfect condition.

Thanks, Ron

I recently came across some Victor Home Recordings made by my mother and members of her family in 1930. The record jackets say they require a special needle to record and play, which I, of course, do not have. My goal is to get the contents of these records put on a CD to share with other members of my family.

Can anyone help me figure out how to play the contents of these 6" records and get them moved to CD?

Dear Donald,

The only George Martin that is known publicly is the famous
Beatles producer from England. Most likely what you have is a
different George Martin. Can you tell if the record is from the U.S.?
I searched the web and the databases at ASCAP and BMI
and found no match between these songs titles ("My Sin"
and "To Love You") and a George Martin. The closest I
found is a Hollywood singer from the 40's, Tony Martin,
singing "My Sin".

-Tim

Hi,

i am wondering if anyone know here to get EMDIC Lacquers from. In germany they are imported by Estemac but where is
the company emdic located??

thnaks

andreas
analogue23@yahoo.com

Hi,

I came across an AudioDisc recording blank dated 12-11-52 while shopping at a used record store today. The artist is "George Martin," and he performs, "My Sin," and "To Love You," on the flip side in which it states he wrote both words and music. He has a piano/organ accompaniment, and it sounds as though he may have been a lounge/cabaret singer during his day. Does anyone have any information on this man, and if there are any other disks out there?
Thanks,

Don
Kinura8@aol.com

Jennifer, is there any way you can tell what baseball teams are involved? Or can you tell the years? Or the place? Also, are these regular 12" size or are they 16"?

I have came across some recorded records and when I played them they are recordings of baseball games and radio recordings. I am not sure what years,but I was wondering if anyone new who may be interested in purchasing these types of records. If anyone would like more info. on these records please e-mail me at rjcrimint@hotmail.com

We have just found some old blank recording discs. 6 1/2 inch Audiodiscs and some RCA 8 inch recording discs. Any one have any idea who might be interested.
Thanks, rritter@oz.net

Quoting MARIE <e-m ogiela@telkomsa.net>:

> I live in South Africa & have acquired a Wire Recorder made in
> Brooklyn (not working) together with several spools (Boosey &
> Hawkes) marked with recorded BBC programs from the 1950's. Is
> there any way these can be transposed onto tapes or CD?

Does your Wire Recorder work? If so, is there an output?
If there is an output, you could obtain a cable (from
Radio Shack or similar) to connect it to a tape recorder,
or, better yet, computer.

Also, there are several transfer services, or people with
equipment, who can transfer recordings on wire to modern
formats. I believe there are at least one or two linked
on my web page http://lexpages.com/weirdrecords

-Tim

I live in South Africa & have acquired a Wire Recorder made in Brooklyn (not working) together with several spools (Boosey & Hawkes) marked with recorded BBC programs from the 1950's. Is there any way these can be transposed onto tapes or CD?

e-m ogiela@telkomsa.net

Hi Dave,

The blanks sold by Apollo: http://www.apollomasters.com/specials.html
should work fine, as long as your recorder can accept 12" blanks. If your recorder is smaller than that, you could ask Apollo if they have smaller sizes. You might also try browsing ebay to see if anyone there might have any of the manuals or needles. Good luck, thanks for writing, and please let us know what kind of success you have in the future - I am curious.

-Tim

Hi, I just purchased a Wilcox Gay Recordette Sr. Model 1j10. It is complete with the original owners manual and the radio plays great . Anyone know where I can get a service manual for the radio and the turntable ? Blank records ? Needles ( both recording and playback )
Thanks !

All I know about Wilcox-Gay recorder turntables is in my article (Weird Records page). Like you, I would like to know more.

As for blank discs, they are currently made and sold by Transco and Apollo. See this page:
http://www.aardvarkmastering.com/resource.htm

----------------------------------------

Transco: http://www.transcousa.com/

Toll-free telephone number: 1-800-876-0039
e-mail: info@transcousa.com

TRANSCO PRODUCTS CORPORATION
PO Box 1025
609 W. Elizabeth Avenue
Linden, New Jersey 07036-4239
 
West coast representative:
MICKEY KNIGHT
Diacoustic Laboratory
22923 DeKalb Drive
Calabasas, California 91302
(818)888-8010

Export office:
TRANSCO PRODUCTS INTERNATIONAL
875 Merrick Avenue
Westbury, New York 11590
(516) 683-3000
TELEX RCA 229011 SPR UR or WUI 6852051 SPC UW

---------------------------------------------

Apollo: http://www.apollomasters.com/products.html
Toll free telephone number: (800) 432-4450
e-mail: sales@apollomasters.com

Apollo Masters Corporation
101 West Lincoln Street
Banning, California 92220
(909) 849-8831

Fax: (909) 849-1374

Internation Sales
909-849-8831

------------------------------

Note that if you order before September 30, 2003,
Apollo has feather-weight 12" reference masters
(recording blanks) for sale for only $12 each
(free ground shipping in the U.S.):

http://www.apollomasters.com/specials.html

 Hi Mr.:
         I´m looking for information about Wilcox-Gay recorder turntable.Also, where could I buy blank dics and the price of them.Regards.Gustavo.Argentina.

I´m looking for information about General Industries recorder turntable.Thank You.

Hi All

I'm looking for a comedy record on a 78 called The Laughing Gas. It was done by a woman called cecily courtneidge in the 1920s or 1930s. Has anyone heard of it if so could you please let me know where i can find it or if it is any other format. I'm desperate .
Thanks for your time vicki
vickibaker@iprimus.com.au

Edited by author 08-02-2003 10:55 PM
Roger, there are many audio restoration specialists around, several of whom have in. Check with Jim Stephens at deepsky@bellsouth.net and I'm sure he'll be glad to hook you up.

I recently found 5 Al Jolson cuts on audio discs stamped with "snapshots in sound, Oxnard Ca". Is ebay the best place to sell these?

I have several records that my dad made in the late 40's and early 50's. They are of home recordings. Most are from the inside out. They are about six inches and have a larger (about 1 and a hlaf inch) whole. Does anyone know how or where I can get these played and copied to cd. I want to play them and then share them with my family. I also have some 10 inch outside in. Will they play on a regular record player at 78 rpm? Thanks.

My guess would be that during the WWII years, aluminum was in short supply, as it was all going towards making airplanes. So other core materials were used to make the blank audiodiscs, such as glass. I had a *steel* audiodisc come in the other day, I don't think there's too many of those.

Hi Matt, thanks for writing.

Anyone else reading this should note that Matt will be posting these on ebay Sunday night. Search for the name "Urbanna". Matt wrote me in e-mail to let me know that they are actually aluminum based, while the sleeves are marked "glass based".

Has anyone seen or know about glass-based discs?

Hi, I live in Va. and recently came across a couple of older acetates LPs on the G. Schrimer label from NY. They are pressed on Glass base Audiodiscs. The artists are Josh and Lib. The songs are #12 Train and Red River. I think it might be Josh White, but I don't know for sure. As far as they LPs themselves I can't find out much info on them either. If you know anymore info on these LPs, Please let me know either here or at Wombo40@yahoo.com, Thanks for your time!
Matt

This forum has been created to discuss acetates and other "weird" records.