good questions! it reminded me of an old indian(?) saying, "if you save a life, you are responsible for it." except like this time we're responsible for an entire people, a culture, a nation. what an awesome responsibility :D

Great questions. Sadly, only a small minority of people will stop to ponder them. The combination of short attention span and me-me-me orientation of the great majority of people in our wonderfully advanced western consumer cultures pretty much guarantee that few will lose any sleep over these important questions.

It's one thing to pose a set of questions, but another order of thinking entirely to take a stab at answering them. By the same token, I certainly don't claim to have all the answers, of course.

One thing that does occur to me is that it's not whether one death toll is worth another, but have the deaths stopped now. By our actions, will the situation improve over time where it wouldn't have otherwise. It seems to me, that, whether the US ever marshals its military might to strike down one more dictatorship or not, at least the Iraqis don't have to worry about another 30 or 40 years of dealing with Qusay and Uday in the wake of Saddam's death, so that's something.

I don't want my freedoms trivialized, minimized, or undermined. But I do wonder, while we lament the changes in laws that are being made that curtail our rights, what can we do instead that will guarantee our security? Okay, I don't think our security can be guaranteed, but how can we improve our odds of stopping another attack on US soil (Or anywhere for that matter)?

While we're crying over this spilled milk, what means can we use to not only make it right again (return our beloved status quo) as well as keep bad men from flying planes into buildings and poisioning the water? You know these people who do these evils don't cotton to just sitting around and talking about it. If you believe in a thing like non-violence, who forwards your cause if you die violently for what you believe in?

Ack, with the questions, now you've got me doing it.

Yes, good questions but probably not good enough. I t has been said that most dilemmas can be solved when the right question is asked. At that point the answer will become obvious. So I guess we ought to keep on asking. So far, though, I can't come up with a better one.

In response to JohnR, I don't think the proposed legislation does help to guarantee our security - at least it's far less effective in doing that than it is in curtailing our rights. It places us all under continual watch, makes us suspicious of each other (as informers, not as potential terrorists) and erects a cloak of secrecy around the government's own actions, so it makes it harder for us to find out when our security has been compromised, it makes it harder to complain about further erosion of liberties and it makes it easier to pursue policies that deliberately sacrifice both our freedom and our safety.

What else can we do to guarantee our security? Why do I keep hearing on the radio that nuclear power stations near built-up areas have inadequate guarding and evacuation plans? Why are dire warnings being given about all our container ports being an open invitation to shipping in bombs? Why do I hear that major reservoirs that supply huge cities are completely unguarded? (New York/New Jersey in all 3 cases)
That all takes manpower - maybe tens of thousands of people, who are currently engaged in actively stirring up hatred against the US.

Regarding whether the deaths have stopped now, I understand the reason Tommy Franks keeps saying the war isn't over yet is because there are still serious battles taking place against the "pockets of resistance" that US/UK tanks swept past in the race to Baghdad. This war had to deliver results quickly - remember all the analysis claiming it was bogged down at 9 days in? Specifically, it had to generate a media moment like the statue-toppling one in a matter of days: something that could be broadcast around the world, a sticky image that would say "this war is over". Franks delivered that, now he's fighting the rest of the enemy troops. He's shifted from prosecuting an invasion to "mopping up", and we all know how long that can take. Far too long for the cameras to stay and watch. In fact, they're still mopping up in Afghanistan.
...No, the deaths haven't stopped yet, and we'll have to wait years for a count of all casualties, if it ever comes.

why punish everyone by restricting freedoms and spending megabucks on security ? It's an unwinable war. The solution to terrorism is justice. It's that simple. Listen to people. Listen to their grievances. Accord them all equal respect & dignity. They'll disarm themselves if there's no point pursuing an armed course of action. That' the lesson it's taken the UK government 30 years to learn in Northern Ireland ... but they finally got it!!

What was that?
some kind of spastic freakout questioning the worth of every action by our nation simply because the Antiwar position didn't quite turn out the way you had hoped?

try to stick to one subject and you will have a better discussion forum established. you will also be presenting a valid point of view and not a schizo perception of the sky falling.

is the freedom of the Iraqi people worth it?

i dunno. lets put a price on the South Koreans lives compared to the N Koreans. or for that matter, lets wonder whether there were enough jews saved in WWII in regards to the effort we put forth invading Germany.
Perhaps we should ask if the democracy attained in Japan was THE RIGHT AMOUNT of democracy for the A Bomb being used.

These questions are insulting and pathetic. they are a diversionary tactic brought up by those who never escaped a feeble mind set. The Iraqi people are porganizing their country for themselves while you debate the "worth" of their lives- like they are less than your own. Get a clue.

Name a free country that didn't gain its freedom through battle and then consider your spineless stance.

Startuing a new party KILL BLAIR. This lying bastard supported a war of aggression contrary to UN Charter, Nuremberg Laws, issued false evidence, told lies and deceived a nation.