The sinister "liberal media" strikes again!

as if we needed another reason to hate ClearChannel.

Kudos for Clear Channel.

My prayers are with the soldiers who for pretty low pay, are risking their necks in the weeks and months to come. I will have no tolerance for those who will endanger their lives and aid the enemy by rhetoric, slander, and unmerited attacks on our government.

Clear Channel is the devil.

Not even because of this. This is just one more indication.

But __x, American soldiers are supposed to fight for people's freedom to make verbal attacks against their government. When last I checked, "dissent" and "treason" weren't synonymous. This is America, after all.

(And to the armed forces: come home safe, ladies and gents.)

I certainly hope some tech companies sponsor the Million Geek March when the time comes to take on Big Content, so as far as Clear Channel goes, they should be able to sponsor whatever rally they want. This is America, after all. I don't like them for what they've done to radio, but as long as it's legal, I figure a company's board should be able to sponsor any kind of rally it likes.

If you don't like what they're doing, vote with your dollar, write your local media and make a stink. Your voice counts. This is America, after all.

I respect what the soldiers stated mission is and I hope that they escape harm, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with war in Iraq. I hope the best comes out of it and that the President is good to his word: that his quarrel isn't with the Iraqi people and that Iraq will be rebuilt for the betterment of all. Do I believe the Bush? Absolutely not. He's been caught lying too often to justify his war with Iraq: falsified dossiers based on old graduate student thesis, evidence blown out of all sense of proportion, mistranslated missives from Bin Laden...

These aren't the signs of a man who cares about the Iraqi people at all, they're the signs of a war-mongerer.

ClearChannel has the right to host these pro-war rallies of course, but we also have the right to voice our disagreement with them.

Let me guess: They sold slots to companies for the "opening hours of the war" coverage and now they have to make sure we have one?!!?!?

Fuckers....

Okay, ClearChannel just beat out Jack Valenti as my number one Big Media Evil.

I'm not a fan of Clear Channel, but how is this worse than, say, public schools or unions organizing anti-war rallies?

And, if it was a company sponsoring anti-war rallies, wouldn't a lot of you folks be cheering them on?

"In a move that has raised eyebrows in some legal and journalistic circles..."

Raised whose eyebrows? Would those same eyebrows have been raised if Clear Channel sponsored anti-war rallies?

/m10 /m9 If KPFA, The Nation or the National Review sponsored a rally, pro or con, that would neither be suprising or questionable. Both entities are well-known, and practice advocacy journalism. But Clear Channel is not advocacy journalism.

/m8 However, since Clear Channel's portfolio includes stations who broadcast "Hawks" this may be an exercise in 'branding'.

I think it's the 'astroturf' aspect of this that I find distasteful. It looks authentic, but it's not.

/m9 Unions do as their membership direct, what is the issue here?

/m3 Since when has legitimate questioning of the Government become slander? Also, it is consistent to oppose Bush's policy and to hope for the safe return of all our fellow citizens in uniform.

"I think it's the 'astroturf' aspect of this that I find distasteful. It looks authentic, but it's not."

Please explain why corporate sponsorship of a rally is inauthentic.

BTW, take a look at the MTV astroturf war page:

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1469752/02052003/id_0.jhtml

If you're for the war, they basically tell you to join the armed services.

If you're against the war they give you links to six anti-war organizations.

For or against the war, when you have a media monopoly organizing people politically, you're entering dangerous territory. This is much like Italy's main media mogul also being its PM (very creepy). What happens when ClearChannel programming starts organizing people for one candidate and slanting its programming?

Last I checked, Clear Channel was a publicly traded company. Unless we own its stock, we've got no say whatsoever in what it can or can't do.

I heard that at the event in San Antonio, they had interfaith stuff going on, too. A mullah was booed off the stage and had to have a police escort.

Last I checked, Clear Channel was operating over publicly owned airwaves. Unless we (citizens) live in a corporate oligarchy, we have total say in what it can or can't do on the air.

 Calling it a "pro-war" rally may be a bit misleading. Here in Houston they seemed to take great pains to let listeners know that it was intended to be a "Rally for America" and that they were neither "pro" nor "anti" war, per se.
 The reasoning was that the peace demonstrators were being viewed more as America haters than anything else, and the intention was to rally and celebrate what is *right* with the USA.
 I doubt there were any signs that read "Let's kill'em all" that day...

Edited by author 03-20-2003 09:29 PM
It's important to read the article.. see where it says Glenn Beck? Glenn Beck is a wanna be Rush Limbaugh. It makes sense that any rallies he would try to promote would be conservative/pro war/etc. The local liberal paper here had an expose on it because two lefties tried to attend the rally and were scared by the fervent "patriotism" the people had.

Anyway.. I'm getting off the point. The point is that this article misleadingly says "Clear Channel is producing rallies", when in effect what is happening is stations that carry Glenn Beck and want to get more listeners are having an event. Clear Channel, while paying the bills (and reaping the hella big profits) from the radio stations, does not actually dictate programming or special events.. this is left to local stations. What happened here at the most was a couple of the station program directors who carry Glenn Beck got together over email going "Hey, he keeps talking about having a rally, let's have one! Yeah! We'll get budweiser to sponsor, and have nascar books available, etc etc".. it's a chance to sell sponsorship, give "goodies" to the kids, and get more people to listen to Glenn Beck. In short, a radio promotional event..

This is not "Evil Company Pushing War", this is station managers who carry a national radio personality using it as an opportunity to get more listeners, thank current listeners, and make some sponsorship cash... i.e. " Radio Promotional Event"

Don't believe the hype, but don't create it where it doesn't exist...

i think my many anti ClearChannel posts here speak for themselves. I can't stand that evil monopoly because it has done nothing but taken advantage of the "big media giveaway" of '93. Perpetuating boring homogenized radio that is the puppet of bullshit record company suits who want us all to buy their garbage generic cartoon music. They kill diversity, creativity and culture.

BUT, let us not forget that the ANTI-War rallies are connected to some of the most anti american oragnizations one could think of.

-first on the list is ANSWER, a pro stalinist, pro communist, bullshit organization that many antiwar protester are downright embaressed to be affiliated with.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110003061


Another of the premier organizers is Not In Our Name, an organization whose funding can be traced to supporters of one of the biggest evils on the planet - militant Islam.
http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/55045.htm

Juts don't be so quick to call supporters of the war puppets when antiwar activities make socialists, tyrants, unelected brutal despots, communists and fascists very very happy that you support their cause and create an atmosphere where they can run amock with "peace" holding back action against them.

/m20 We were talking about ClearChannel, not Answer. Minus several billion style points for rhetorical fallacy.

/m12 Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the National Review sponsors a "Support Our Troops, Kill Baa'th Facists" rally in Times Square, and enlists several conservative hawks as speakers. I'm pretty certain that the Review will be taking a loss on it, sure they may pick up a few subscribers, but they are an advocacy organization first, and not in it for the money.

Jason, in /m19, summarizes my objectl. It's using an unfortunate event as a promotional tool. Is it legal, sure. But I think it smells.

If you want authentic, 'pro-war' demonstrations. Go to Fairfield, California, between SAC and SF on I80. It's the home of Travis AFB. Lots of people waving flags and standing on corners cheering Bush. None of that wasn't orchestrated by a Clear Channel affiliate.

actually Bill, i would have to say that the larger issue is the silent orchestrating of demonstrations for another entity's benefit.
The Clearchannel thread puts forth the idea that a corporate conglomerate is behind demonstrations that support our military action.
I feel that this issue can only be explored if we also recognize the opposite is true as well. anything else would be shielding our eyes away from the whole issue.
you cast off the fact that anti-american organizations are organizing peace rallies as a "fallacy" but you want to pursue Clearchannels involvement. ignorance defined.

Gosh what happend to all the weapons of mass destruction all the bio chemical,,,wow I guess Iraq did hold the UN Sanctions....Ohhh well it was fun bombig and killing people, maybe we can plant some wepons now so i don't look like adolf hitler.

George Adolf Bush
Come visit these sites
http://exile.ru/151/1510204113.html

http://www.againstbush.com

where are the weapons of mass destruction? the ones special ops havent neutralized have been flying at kuwait. doesnt anyone watch cnn..

Um yeah I saw that too - hasn't been alot of coverage on it but yes Iraq was caught red-handed, firing SCUDS they weren't supposed to have as agreed to by the UN resolution.

Hey... Straight to the Point.

  All you Anti-War Freaks make me sick. You are all pawns for the Cultural Marxist groups organizing the rallies. Do'nt believe me...read Antoni Gramscis prison notes and then find out who funds the peace movements - ignorant little people.

  If Iraq pays money to the freaks who blow themselves up to kill Isrealies, what makes you think he will not do the same for those type of bastards to do it to the USA. I rather see them dead then my fellow country men All of your peace and love shit is utopian and not Realistic! Get your head out of your asses.

Lin Qiu Shan

Anyone who does not think this war is justifiable is only fooling themselves. 76% of Amricans feel that this war was what is needed to rid the islamic region of a known terroristic dictator, a murder of his own people. If Saddam doesn't have chemical weapons, why the hell are his troops carrying brand new gas masks!!! He also has scuds, another UN violation, you Anti-War dumbasses need you open your eyes, Do you actually think Our President and his security advisors arent leap years beyond your knowledge on national security issues. Seriuosly what in God's Name makes you think you know anything about this war other than the fact that you have nothing better to do than bitch about something in which you have not a damn clue as to what is happening!

You Anti-War / Anti- Bush people make me sick!!!

I am as proud as I can be of my president and my country men who are doing this country a great service unlike most of you! In a finishing note, If you don't have support for oour country or pur president, SHUT YOUR HOLE, NOBODY WANTS TO HEAR YOU!!!

On a related note, i'd like to state that it was a terrible thing when the Australian news crew was killed by that suicide car bomb.
We all know that Saddam doesn't have any ties to radical muslim extrmists - so that should have never happened. right?

Hello-
 
Let me give you a little insight. Yours is the same story that protestors ALWAYS use: "I'm not anti- America" "I don't want our troops to die" etc., etc., etc. As a person raised on military bases overseas, I can understand how our troops perceive people like yourself. You protestors don't seem to understand that your anti-war sentiment is not seen by our young military men/women in Iraq as any kind of support for them. It scares them, it makes them sad, they worry about who is backing them and let me tell you from experience, they don't see protestors in that light WHATSOEVER.
 
So, the next time you go out and protest against our military, government and president, please remember what message you are sending to our troops in Iraq.
 
Nancy Blasquez: An ethnic, female, middle school teacher in Northern California.

Okay Nancy...

Well here is the deal: the military occupies a terrifying role in a civil society. They are the forces of freedom and protection at the same time that they are the fources of repression, imperialism, terror and random murder.

All in one neat package.

For a civil society to make the choice to unleash the dogs of war requires a supreme commitment.

I do not have that commitment to this conflict or this president.

Are there any pro war rallies in LA county, I want to raise my voice in support of my Country, & so does my family!

This war is not against the Iraqi people , it is against a tyrant, dictator, named insane hussein, if our nation wants to be safe & free, we have no choice, we must erradicate this man. He would not give any of us or our families a second thought, if he had the cappability to blow us to kingdom come. Instead of crying anti-war slogans, we should be supporting our troops, president, & nation!

Hey........... all you who are cying "world peace" and "no war" just open up and read the first few pages of the Bible there will never be world peace since the early days of Eden only Good and Evil. Are you saying that America is an Evil nation. This Nation where you can speak your mind and not be thrown in jail or tortured and you and your loved ones who live here have the right to prosper and have a good life, so I have just one question for you, what side are you on.... Good or Evil? And may I just end by saying since all of you are such humanitarians go help the homeless or donate your time to your local chartiable organizations or would that take away from your time wasted protesting our great nation because let's face it, that is what you are doing!

damn right kelli! i get so pissed of when some goes, "peace is the ONLY solution." my a$$... the world has tried these "peaceful" ways to get saddam outta power for 12 YEARs... i think war is a much quicker solution! supoort the troops...

Hi Guys. Iam writing from Australia where we are organising a march this weekend you may be interested in. The secret is not to be boxed into a corner by the Peace Protestors. You need to be as inclusive as possible and being called Pro-War does not do that: MARCH FOR ALIGNMENT
We are a group of ordinary Australians. We are not a political organization. We have differing views about the war in Iraq. But we have one thing in common. We have felt the Peace Movement to be one sided and not representative of how we feel. So if you too have felt voiceless in the current political situation ... join us in a ... MARCH FOR ALIGNMENT - You might agree with some, all, or none of the reasons to follow. It doesn't matter. This MARCH essentailly recognises that ALIGNMENT means to become more integrated. Where traditional left wing learn to hold hands with traditional Right Wing. Where we recognise it is very convenient to march holding a banner for Peace in a country that has freedome of speech. SOME REASONS TO MARCH FOR ALIGNMENT: 1. Peace is a Utopian Ideal very similar to mainsteam romantic movies where the hero and heroine walk off into the sunset together. 2. You are tired of the Peace Movement rehetoric stuck in the 1980s. 3. You are NOT pro-war. We all agree NO Australians want a war. But you recognise Global Harmony will better evolve with realistic tools. 4. You are a traditional Green vote who knows the next stage of the earth movement embraces both the shadow and the light. The most obvious analogy being Mother earth herself, where in her seasons, death and rebirth are forever occuring. 5. You are a traditional Liberal vote who wants to show John Howard he has support. 6. You are an Iraqi Immigrant who would like to see saddam Hussein ousted. 7. You belong to Amnesty International and you know about the human atrocties committed in Irag against artists, opposition, women, Kurds etc. 8. You are confused by all the different agendas but your intuition tells you that something positive will come out of the war. 9. You can see that history shows war can be transformative for the Global Soul. The united nations was created out of a war. 10. You think it ironical that Peace marchers can be so aggressive. 11. You think a Peace Movement should be practised in homes before on the world stage. Divorce statistics indicate this is not the case. 12. You believe basic human rights should be policed globally as they are locally. 13. You shrunk in your seat with shame at the sight of Mike what's-his-name's HUGE EGO on the academy awards. EMAIL this to five people you know. Turn your voicelessness into ENTHUSIASM.

On behalf of Canadians everywhere I'd like to offer an apology to the United States of America. We haven't been getting along very well
ecently and for that, I am truly sorry.

I'm sorry we called George Bush a moron.
He is a moron but, it wasn't nice of us to point it out. If it's any consolation, the fact that he's a moron shouldn't reflect poorly on the people of America. After all it's not like you actually elected him.

I'm sorry about our softwood lumber. Just because we have more trees than you doesn't give us the right to sell you lumber that's cheaper and better than your own.

I'm sorry we beat you in Olympic hockey. In our defence I guess our excuse would be that our team was much, much, much, much better than yours.

I'm sorry we burnt down your white house during the war of 1812. I notice you've rebuilt it! It's Very Nice.

I'm sorry about your beer. I know we had nothing to do with your beer but, we Feel your Pain.

I'm sorry about our waffling on Iraq. I mean, when you're going up against a crazed dictator, you wanna have your friends by your side. I realize it took more than two years before you guys pitched in against Hitler, but that was different. Everyone knew he had weapons.

And finally on behalf of all Canadians, I'm sorry that we're constantly apologizing for things in a passive-aggressive way which is really a thinly veiled criticism. I sincerely hope that you're not upset over this. We've seen what you do to countries you get upset with.

Thank you.

Any upcoming PRO-war/support our troops rallies for the Dallas area (closer than Midland on 3/29)???? Dallas Morning News gives more attention to the anti-groups than Pro.

Edited by author 03-24-2003 12:00 PM
Hey Mike, Nice message from canada. Well Mike.. looks like living up in the cold, cold north must have frozen what brain you have to the side of your ass. So tell us Mike, besides a freaky bastardized version of the french language and screwed up socialized medical system (did'nt one of your so-called political leaders come here for medical attention), what other great things has your frenchy wanna-be country brought to humanity? It sure as hell aint the torch of freedom. Hummm lets see....oh I know....why...it's absloutly Nothing.! Hey Mike, who the hell cares what canada or candians think about anything anyway? Canada is about as relevant to the world scene in it's contributions as cuba. And what the hell does a canadian know about beer.....again....absoloutly nothing? You know Mike, the fact is, you creeps up there have sat on the sidelines slackjawed watching the UNITED STATES kick your ass in every particular for so long that you cant do anything but get jealous. Look, let's face it Mike, you need put down your dope pipe for a minute and let the air get to your head. And hey, I dont think you should be sorry for your passive agressive tone, if in fact thats what it is, we know you people phrase your statements as though your asking a question. Yep, stupidity comes in all forms Mike...and you wear it so well. I regret waisting my time commenting on your ranttings but..... So tell us, having no real national idenity of it's own besides being "The great bowel movment of France" what is it about canada that sucks so bad? Yea dont apoligize for nothing...we know your sorry! You know Mike, canada and canadians like you dont have to cry and whine to lets us no your there.....your soooo much like the french..... we smell ya!
Thanks ay!

 Now I gotta tell ya, that was one of the funniest things I've EVER read!! hahah... A typical american response.
 Ever wonder why EVERYONE HATES americans? And don't come back saying thats not true or everyone else is just jealous like you yankees always say.... if you've ever stepped foot off of your ignorant country then you'd know exactly what I'm talking about and exactly why every time a Canadian travels we wear our flag on our backpacks, so we don't get mistaken for Yankees!
 How could you even bring up the healthcare system? Are you seriously that stupid? What happens if you break your leg two days before payday? Ya gotta sit around in pain for two days.... at least here we get prompt (FREE) medical atention!
  I know you must have been drunk when you wrote that last letter, but it baffles me how someone could possibly get drunk on that watered down stuff you call beer... thats hilarious.
  
 An american second grader and a Canadian second grader get into a fight... Who wins? The american of course...because he's 16!!

Mike- you need something better to do....go get a hobby.

Edited by author 03-24-2003 01:56 PM
When people like Mike post messages such as the ones below, it just makes people opposing the war look ridiculous, not intelligent and worth listening to. If they want people to listen, and follow, then they need to learn how to communicate their ideas effectively, and to back them up with fact. What I have been wondering is what they propose our government do if Bush were to stop the war and pull back because of the protesters(playing devil's advocate). Tell me your solution? Is it to do nothing? I just want to know. And also, were you fighting for Iraqi rights BEFORE this started? Or did you run to the first rally you could find afterward? And one more thing, are you a registered voter, and did you vote last election? Just some thoughts...I respect the rights of all Americans and people in other countries to rally, but be prepared to answer tough questions intelligently or face ridicule.

Are there any pro-war rallies in Las Vegas, Nevada? My husband and I are stationed here. I would like to get involved. I believe that we need to be heard just as much as the anti-war or pro-peace or whatever they are calling themselves now. Most Military that I have talked to support the war and some are headed over that way. The question in some of there minds are how can these people be pro-peace or whatever and still support the troops. I also have that same question. Do they not know that the Men and Women that signed up for the Military have a strong sense of duty and pride for what they stand for?!?! My husband is one of them...He wishes he could be there fighting with his brothers and sisters in arms. So I guess my biggest question is how can you be both anti-war and still support the troops?

Sarah

I believe what will happen if Bush stops the war. All those people that welcomed the American's in there village will be killed or punished with extreme measures by that crazy man. Just like what happened in Desert Storm.

Any Pro-War rallies going on in South Carolina and/or North Carolina??? Let me know so I can be there!!

Thanks for the words of great frenchy wisdom Mike.... If stupidity ever hits $40 a barrel I got drilling rights on your head pal...
see ya..!

Edited by author 03-24-2003 03:11 PM
Anti-War demonstrators? I used to get so mad when I watched CBS and looked onward as thousand of simple minded people demonstrated an anti-war rally. Now I watch and laugh at the ignorance displaid on national television. A woman flapped her gums about how "This is not a democracy!" In truth, if majority house and senate behind President Bush is not democracy, then what is? Michael Moore standing in front of the nation droning about what a shame it is to have Bush as President...
   Really you have to understand that these people who practice anti war protests have no idea of what they are doing, they only know they want to protest something.
   I talked to a demonstrator here at UK campus and asked her why she was protesting the war. She answered that we did not need to be killing inocent people. Well, that just doesn't make sense. We are fighting Saddam 'Insane' who is NOT inocent and sparing civilians. She did not understand the facts. Peace! is all they say, we gave Saddam 17 chances and more for peace, the time to "put up or shut up" is over. He can surrender any time he wants to. If you incounter a leftist who is against the war, have a simple conversation with them and explain to them what this war is really about. To liberate a civilization under terror from an evil ruler who can not be trusted.

  Hey..

 Yeah John, I completly agree with you.... it's quite obvious that EVERYONE wants world peace, but it's just plain stupid to demonstrate against a war when the objective to the war is to create peace and freedom in the country. I just wish I was the lucky one that could put the bullet into Saddams forehead.
 
Maunfacturing consent is the name of the game, the bottom line is money, Nobody gives a Fu<K, 4000 hungry children leave us per hour while billions are spent on bombs creating death showers.

The anti-war protest has fallen dramaticaly here in the UK since the war started.
It is just the usual anti- anything brigade that are bothering to turn up to the demonstrations now.
The kind of idiots that think smashing McDonalds windows will help bring world peace !
The kind of people who are anti-American at the drop of a hat because it means they get a chance to look like a rebel and burn a flag !

Most of the country are behind the war.But it is a very silent majority.
I and all my family and almost all my workmates are 100% behind the actions against Saddam.

hey king chillout UK, great to hear from our allies, we deeply appreciate your support & send our condolences on your losses. I despise insane hussein, and back this war 100%. Nobody wants someone to die, but, how many would die if Hussein stays in power

The war protestors should be jailed, then fined to reimburse 100% the law enforcement agencies involved with them and taking them away from terroris threats, terrorism and their regular duties.

Where was Michael Moore when the innocent citizens of Iraq were being tortured, raped, executed and repressed by Saddam Hussein and his flunkies? That windbag with his so-called patroitic agenda is disgusting. I am a Vietnam veteran and proud to be an American, know we must fight for our freedom as well as others freedom, we must share the wealth in all areas we lavish in here in thei Great Country. We must remember that our forefathers fought hard and sacraficed for us to enjoy all we have today and when the call comes for us to go fight then we must go. It's really that simple!

Gordon, Well put my friend. Rush Limbaugh tore Michael Moore apart yesterday afternoon too.
 If anyone out there doesn't listen to Rush, then do so! He really analyzes the situations and makes things real clear. 12-3 weekdays NPR network.

Can anyone give me some good methods of creating a large ProWar rally? I go to the University of Kentucky which is predominatly Liberal and I want to get a rally going. Any ideas??

Great words Gordon.... I say hurrah for you. I also think that one of the things that would cause a change in this country is, if more parents wpuld encourage their kids to spend at least 3 years in the armed forces before getting turned loose on the nation. the service would get thier attention , build characterr and we would have a stronger military force. and afterwards those youngsters would go into the society with more pride in thier country and a much greater appreciation for our men and women in uniform instead of being a troublesome mob of wayward punks who missed the 60's and are trying to create thier own.... PS.. thanks fopr your service to our country.!

John, A good thing to do is to call your local talk radio station. enlist some help from you buddies at school, get on the compouter and make some fliers and hand them out. It will catch on... put up a few broadsides on major streets...have your time and place...!

I live in the most liberal state, California. BUT in our small northern California town of Willits,(about 3 hours north of S.F.) the silent majority is no longer silent. We have started having pro-american, pro-Bush demonstrations, to show our support for our troops, and the freedom for Iraq. It has been wonderful to finally say enough to the anti-war protesters, and show our community that there is another side to be seen and heard. This past Friday, we had approx. 90 patriotic citizens of our small community come out with their flags and voices! Just wanted to share with someone!

Just a question...why doesnt the media ever give equal coverge to pro-america demonstrations? Even our own local newspaper has no interest in covering our demonstrations. Maybe we just are not exteme enough in our demonstrations?
Not that I want to be, I am frustrated with the media's one side coverage. Why do our troops have to hear more about anti-war demonstrations than the proamerican demonstrations?
Oh, I know, freedom of the press...

Edited by author 03-25-2003 05:24 PM
(tlc) For one my friend, The answer probably wont be what you think, the media is not covering what you and I call an "anti war rally". In all actuallity it is an Anti George Bush rally. See the liberal media and all their left wing socialist cronies cant stand our President. They cant stand the fact that Bush won and they hate the fact that Bush is a Christian and finally they cant stand the fact that our man is a man of courage, conviction and character. That in a nut shell my friend is one reason they dont cover us in our supportt of our brave soldiers.....Plus most in the "Liberal" press see our troops as evil and simply just have a hatred for them and all things American, Christian etc...

I was wondering if we "pro-americans", "pro-freedom" people of the USA, can't somehow form a MAJOR "pro-Iraqi Freedom" march on Washington. If we could get thousands to show up, the media would HAVE to show up. I for one would be willing to purchase a plane ticket to attend this demonstration. If anyone has any information or suggestions, lets ban together and do this! GOD BLESS our President, Troops, and the USA! Duane Fowler E-mail: MANINDSHIP@AOL.COM Lets try to make this happen! WE CAN DO IT!

Fact: Human nature causes us to be pacifists to foreign affairs to which we may never be affected by.

The media on the other hand, tries to involve an audience to become a part of what is something that may never affect an entity on a personal level.

Why are we pro-war? Did Suddam come to your house and start waving a shank around at members of your family possibly putting them in danger? Most likely not but has Saddam killed many of his people? Now look at the other side? Why are we anti-war? Was Saddam a man that was put into power by the US itself? The UN was put into place to do a job and it was trying to do its job. But these are all things that are seen through the glass of a television screen. Behind that screen is a media-man trying to come to conclusions. Conclusions that are brought about by influencing higher powers that fund these news stations?

What I am is a youth of the world. I am nor Republican nor Democrat. I sit merely on the fence. I live in a country built on First Nations blood along with the exploitation of African Americans and I am greatly saddened by that. I am for the evolution of human kind that leaves fighting a thing of the past. I doubt any of you are younger than me. That making you a role model for today’s youth. What is it that you our role models are teaching to us? War is the answer? Is this a cut and dry situation? War in Iraq to me, through the eyes of a youth, simply seems like a simple way to set up yet another coupe and take control of ones natural resources only benefiting a small portion of the American people. And yet innocent citizens will dye for this?

Pro-war, Anti-war…it all makes me sick. Turn off your TV or computer, go outside, open a book, and enjoy the sun while it lasts. Your actual judgment of the world may change from things you don’t even affect to things you actually do. You may at this moment in time be discussing something that affects you and your family directly. An example would be our increasing smog rates and depleting ozone.

How does it feel to be afraid of a Boogieman that was never in the closet?

Joel, The nation was built and achieved it's early goals partially on slavery which at that time in our nations history was within the bounds of law. This law was abolished. The nation has since moved on and thie institution of slavery is no longer the law of the land. National progression dictates we no longer dwell on this..It is now dead. No person in his or her right thinking mind is for war or "Pro war". War is a horrible waste of human life. But war is a necessary thing. Ours is a nation governed by laws and by free will. We believe so much in this, that we would sacrifice our on lives to give it to others. In this case right now, war is the only option diplomacy has faild and sadam could have prevented this. Ours is a two fold mission here. To first make damn sure this dictator in Iraq dont have weapons of mass destruction that he will certainly use on us or give them too someone who will, then to free the people of Iraq from a tyrant who denies them the freedom that God has surley given us all. When this war is over there will be "no long term occupation" or seizure of oil, thats a myth.....it's that simple.. And Joel...remember, Good never fears evil. And the boogieman is not in the closet... It's not a boogieman at all... It's an extremley evil man who means to do us all serious harm...even you my friend... Take care man.... "G"

Gary thanks for your response.

Your statement on laws. Are laws something that are put in place to truly fix a problem or a more cost effective way to cover a problem up?

"The nation has since moved on and thie institution of slavery is no longer the law of the land. National progression dictates we no longer dwell on this. It is now dead"
Are you yourself First Nation or African American?
http://www.newsreview.com/issues/reno/2003-01-16/cover.asp

"War is the only option diplomacy has faild and sadam could have prevented this. "
I am not really sure if he could have, they let the UN into the country. They seemed to be making progress. But than again I get my news from different news sources not just CNN. If we are going to throw statements around we should always look at every angle, don't you think? As media sources are all funded from someone and don't you think those funded opinions on current events are starting to shine through?

"To first make damn sure this dictator in Iraq dont have weapons of mass destruction that he will certainly use on us or give them too someone who will, then to free the people of Iraq from a tyrant who denies them the freedom that God has surley given us all."
"To first make darn sure"... So what you are saying is innocent Iraqi citizens are dying just to make SURE their dictator DOESN'T have weapons. I though the reason we put a UN in place was to handle things like this. The reality is Wolfowitz has been planning this war for the past 12 years... Suddam just did not become a threat; he has been for a long time. So don’t put your freedom mumbo jumbo spin on this. I am well aware of possible threats from all over the world. “Possible” threats, so now that Suddam is out of the way does that give us the liberty to go fight off some more “possible” threats? Cigar, Smoke, Paranoia?

“When this war is over there will be "no long term occupation" or seizure of oil, thats a myth.....”
A myth? Rrrrrrrrrrright...I won’t even bother with that one. History should show you enough that wars are a way to distract the home front and fuel the economy.

“Good never fears evil. And the boogieman is not in the closet... It's not a boogieman at all... It's an extremley evil man who means to do us all serious harm... even you my friend...”
Sorry...the Boogieman analogy was used to describe the current state of media. How a mass majority of government funded organizations leave us in a state of fear... hence “the Boogieman.” If we’re not scared of Iraq then we are scared of Osama. Who will we be afraid of next? Will that fear be fueled by the media? Have you never heard the good ole statement “What one doesn’t know won’t heart them”? At the end of the day all mass media is doing is trying to make us think we are part of this “Game”, and are we really? All we are told is half truths to lead us to believe we are a informed country. Don’t get me wrong...Al-Jazeera is just as propagandized as CNN is. Heads need to be removed from the sand to realize that all we are in positions like this is voters.

“Good never fears evil.”
“It's an extremley evil man who means to do us all serious harm”
Don’t those two statements contradict each other? “Extremely Evil”...words that one uses when one is afraid.

Don’t get me wrong Gary... you may think I am coming off as “anti-freedom.” We all must ask ourselves what freedom is? Don’t let the media tell you what freedom is. Because freedom to the media (ie government) is citizens going to a job being part of some empire that exploits its own country among many others to gain profits. We being a part of that makes us “Patriotic”? Take a look at the tag of your shirt? Maybe it was made in a underdeveloped country? By someone’s 9 year old daughter that was paid mere dollars for a month of work? Why aren’t we fighting a war against child labor? Hmmm...? But go on...enjoy your Coca-Cola Classic, your clothing, your automobile, your internet... if that is what freedom is to this nation?

We need to come to the realization that our “freedom” is coming at the cost of other men, women and children. What is freedom to me? Tending to land that provides for me and my family... Being self-sufficient.

A human’s biggest weakness?...Ego. Living under them impression that one can change the world for the better. Once we can evolve past the “I think I am right” syndrome...we will live in a unified society in which wars will be unheard of. That is the world I strive for.


Here is a blog from someone that is in Iraq at the moment and is seeing the affects of what is happening...
http://dear_raed.blogspot.com/
may prayers are with this person and anyone being affected by unjust crimes all over this world.


--A truly gifted leader is someone that can avoid war and resolve conflicts in a hospitable manner--

Anti-war protestors...what a bunch of hypocrites.

When I see Iraqi children following British troops and pointing towards their mouths in an attempt to show they are hungry....I think of all those ant-war protestors who were quite willing for their starvation to continue.

On some UK radio call-in shows, the anti-war callers phone in to gloat everytime there is news of a minor setback in the progress of the war.
I'm coming to the conclusion that they would be happier the more troops were killed !

How does a human being get to hate his own kind so much ?
How do you get to the stage where you think doing nothing will cure everything ?

King Chillout from UK please state then, what war is going to do to help the hungry in Iraq? Does that mean we should be fighting a war in Africa as well?

"I'm coming to the conclusion that they would be happier the more troops were killed!"
First mistake, don't come to conclusions.

"How do you get to the stage where you think doing nothing will cure everything?"
How do you get to the state that thinking war will change things for the better?

Hey Joel, as always I enjoy your colorful descriptions and well thought out arguments. In response: (ahem)

I am neither anti-war or pro-war. And I assure everyone out there that there ane MANY people that at pro-war. My opinion on this due to the political paths our countries follow, wars are sometimes unavoidable. Sometimes we must enter in to them to protect our people from a direct threat. This "threat" however is totally avoidable. There is no doubt that this Iraq threat could have been handled in a hundred ways. The US however decided to handle it by starting a war that is costing them $4 billion a month. PS- should take about a year to complete. Happy tax paying, Joe America!

A country cannot retain sovierenty without a standing military force. I agree, we could live without wars and guns, and fighting, live off the land, use solar power, etc. Many of us would be happy with this, but many more woud not. The human being lusts for power, control, and destruction. I know most of you have a hard time understanding this, but hey, I have a hard time understanding black holes. That doesn't mean black holes do not exist.

As a country, we need protection, without it we would go the way of the north american native. We would live in harmony until someone bigger and more powerful came along and took over the land we used. And I am sorry to say, that in our world, that is the game, and that is how it is fairly played. No defence means you will be wiped out. Due to the nature of the human race. I wish it could be another way, but it isn't.

Its easy to sit on the sidelines and denounce war, politics, etc. The rules and ideas you follow are for those who sit aside and watch others bleed. Anyone in here fight in a war? raise your hand. Umm, anybody hold political office and stop a war from starting? hands raised please?

State your opinions, but remember that every story has 2 sides. don't just look at it from your side. Also, anyone can tell me I am drowning, but I don't need to you to describe the water to me, do something! Help out!

PS- "I think I am right" -- Should we think we are all wrong? what would that accomplish?

I look forward to replying to your reply.

Joel, Really great to hear back from you..! You sound like a really nice well meaning person. Although I seem to detect that you sound somewhat negative. Regreatbly,I'm not going to take the time to disect your argument but rather I would like to comment on a couple of things.... First let me say that I trulyappreciate your position you are one of the very few out there who know where they stand and would take the time to articulate it. Whether I am black or white or red or green...It should be of no concern to anyone who is not a racist...I am first and formost an American. If you try to walk forward looking backwards all the time you fall. Whats passed is passed. On the media funding, I do see your point And Im not so much in agreement with the funding aspect as I am just the liberal or socialist slant...CNN is one of many here. However you have to get your information from somewhere in order to make a "informed" decision. I choose fox. On the innocents dying. Yes...war is a horrible thing but so is torcher, rape, execution, gassing. I have a good scorce here... my little brother has seen this first hand. On occupation and and oil...certainly a force of troops will be there to stabilize the country untill a real government is in place, but no way in hell were after oil, we left and got home aftter the first gulf war.... kuwait had oil and that country was flat on it's ass after we ran sadam out of there but did we move in and take it?..no!...it's a myth. Oh Joel your down on the media Buddy...but I'm glad to see you are.... About the boogie man statment..I missunderstood I guess. But now that I know.... I dont let the news work me up into a sweat for nothing, I aint about to let those doom and gloom nay sayer's dupe me. But you have to sift through and make a decision (as it appears you have done). "What one dosent know wont hurt them...." go tell that to our 3000 countrymen dead in New York, Washington and Pennsilvania. Good never fears evil..etc...! (this is on spot where you sound negative) No contradiction at all, this is simple fact. Evil loves it when good people stand by and do nothing and allow evil to prosper, evil rely's on that, as long as we do nothing we will allways have the Hitlers, Stalins, Hochi Mins and the Sadams in this world. You say "what is freedom?" Well freedom is a lot of things to a lot of people. Mine is to get up and go to work at the job of my choosing, wash my truck on saturday with a cold beer in my hand, go to the church I choose too and walk down the street with my wife, her hair blowing in the breeze without fear of her being beaten cause she showed her face hair or legs. See like you say about the 9 year old girl... that existed in this country not to long ago...we changed that too. You say living under the impression you can change the world for the better is not true.... Ibeg to differ....Tell that to George Washington, and the thousands and thousands of our soldiers who have died to make sure thatt we do get.....as you said that next coke...or in my case a cold beer... True Joel our freedoms do come at the cost of others.....Everyone of them is a US soldier. You say a truly great leader is someone who can avoid war.... Neville Chamberlin thought he could do that....Sadam was "Relying" on it...!
"G"

Ummmm....hey Gary. I agree with you on many of those points. Except about having a truck.

I just have one question though? who put Saddam into power? I seem to remember a country with stripes or stars or something on the flag giving him heavy support? Can you remember?

Hey Joel, little less reactive and a little more pro-active. Get off your computer ahem pedestal....cough....and go outside. were you just drinking Coke (tm) as you browsed to this page on your Microsoft Internet Explorer (tm)?

Sorry Jared...was actually on my linux browser wich is entirely powered by solar, while drinking crab juice.

And Gary...didn't mean to come off as negative. Getting emotionally behind my arguements i never really see worth while to me.

"What one dosent know wont hurt them...."
Didn't mean it in that manner Gary...but in the manner of how mass media is turning these tragic events into entertainment. All in the name of ratings.

But anyhow, off to learn more, to decipher how I can be important to this society...

Here is to being young and learning...

Hey Joel and Jared..... Jared....roger that buddy...but, what the hecks wrong with my little truck? Joel....Dont get emotionally behind your argument dude...get factually behind it..Hell buddy you sound like your there..saddle that pony and ride...I was thinking on the way home yesterday about alot you said man, me and you agree on more than you think I bet... P.S. Sadam came to power through a coupe in 1973 Ithink....! You guy's are great..."G"

Edited by author 03-27-2003 11:13 AM
Joel....One thing that I would like to say in your defense man, you talk about being a young dude like it's a bad thing....Well, let me say this man...It dosent matter what age a person may be, what matters is the willingness of that person to learn. To learn by experiencing things, to learn by studies to learn by observation of good and bad examples and listen too reason...to take in all the facts. Then to take all those facts and the things you have learned and make intelegent informed decisions out of them and make the right choices. Only a fool opens his mouth without having facts in his head. Being emotionally contected to some of your arguments is a part of you that will subside as you get older. But dont beat yourself up cause you may be young. Hey man I have met some folks in thier late 40's, 50's and older, who couldnt conect a clear thought with reasoning if thier lives depended on it. And say the most embarrassingly stupid things you ever heard in yor lfe. I can tell you try to reason things out...That say's a lot about you..... Most of the anti war folks will almost always be not well thought out, very pointed and hatefull...and without the ability to learn or reason...! they only see hate, without trying to learn....You sound on track to me buddy.

Hey Joel, wanna go grab a crab juice when you get back?

You "do" like bugging him dont you man? Ive got to admit.....that crab jiuce comment of his was pretty funny...!

"King Chillout from UK please state then, what war is going to do to help the hungry in Iraq? Does that mean we should be fighting a war in Africa as well?

"I'm coming to the conclusion that they would be happier the more troops were killed!"
First mistake, don't come to conclusions.

"How do you get to the stage where you think doing nothing will cure everything?"
How do you get to the state that thinking war will change things for the better?"

Joel,

I'll answer your questions....

Have you seen how the Iraqi people are willing to fight each other in an effort to get the food packages the soldiers have been giving out ?
I'm sure they would say we have helped them be fed. And this war could help feed millions of others.

And yes, we should go to war on some African states. They have plenty of tyrants there as well !
Tyrants who are only too willing to see their people starve.

How can I not come to any conclusions or opinions about this war ? I'm a human being. That's what we do.
I have seen and heard things from the anti-war mob that have shocked me more than the actual war has !!!!

Seeing as I am from the UK, and not living in a country governed by Germany....I'd say WW2 proved that war can be a good thing.

I am sick and tired of the media telling me the war is going badly !

When British troops finally landed in the Falklands, it took over a month of fighting to regain the islands....and they were only a few hundred miles square !!!!

Thousands of American troops are on the outskirts of Bagdhad, thousands more moving in from the North and the East. British troops have a good grip of the South and the US and British airforces are doing a brilliant job.
Aid is now getting into the country, and there are over 100,000 new troops coming to join the fight and secure supply lines.
And most impotrantly, casualties have been low.
All this in much less than two whole weeks....and the media say it's going badly ?

Just because some Iraqi sniper fires off a few rounds at a convoy in the middle of the desert, or they dare shoot back when our troops are succesfully defending a bridge, it doesn't mean the war is going badly !

I'm sure the media are treating this war like a television series...if it drags on too long, interest will drop, and the ratings will fall.

Surely it won't be long before a TV company asks the viewers which General they want to vote out of the house !

I agree dude, fox news is the only thing worth watching if you want news not some junk about how bad the war is going. NBC and CBS always puts good ole, Tom Dashel on as the MINORITY leader, what the heck is a minority leader anyway. The democrats don't hold anything because people are starting to realize just how pathetic their goals really are. Anyway Tom Dashel always says how bad the war is, or if he is talking to a conservative group how he supports it. Hypocrite. Don't sorry about what the Liberals have to say because they do not matter anymore, at least not for the next 5 years.

Got to agree here......Daschel is an embarrasment to the nation but one of the best things that has ever happened to the Republican party..... Everytime this little clown opens his yap he puts that little 7 double D in and and tries to swallow it on national TV... The more he gets in front of the camera....the better I like it..! He's alway's......"Saddened" or "Unhappy" or "Deeply troubled" or theres alway's "I'm deeply dissapointed"... negative, negative, negative....! Smile Tommy..... Youll be back home in Dakota before you can say..."Heartfelt sorrow"..!

Fox sucks, Clearchannel sucks and so does Bush

HATEFULL, HATEFULL, HATEFULL............... LIBERALS CAN'T HAVE A REGULAR TALK WITHOUT THE HATE JUST OOSING OUT.. NOW CAN THEY?

Home many more months can this thread live on?

Edited by author 04-24-2003 08:05 PM
Clearchannel is the key to the white house for Bush, 1200 stations including TV and radio all blasting pro bush bull. The ignorant and stupid believe it. Too bad for democrats or as Clearchannel says "Tax and Spend Liberals" what they don't say is we had a surplus two years ago now Bush has spent us into a deep hole.

After this term.........be certain of it.......four more years of a President who does what he say's and stands for whats right.! Poor , poor little socialists.... you'll have to wait to destroy the national fabric.

If he said eat a pile of shit you would be the first in line

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Usually, when vulgar lilltle kids such as yourself open their limited little mouths and let their education show, I dont listen or respond. I should stay to the rule but must let you know that, like most little socialist your lack of education has total control over your very small and trashy vocabulary. You should have paid more attention in class, you could have come away the some..... Instead, your left with the language that defines you best. Foul..!

I am sorry I forgot to be nice, but you and others who do not mind that their rights are being erroded must know that you cannot check out a book at the library without big brother knowing the name. Concentration camps in Cuba with 11 year old children. Locking up american citizens without any charges or bail. I don't know how old you are but I hope you are not counting on SS as a part of your retirement, and forget drug benifits. Oh I forgot to tell you I am a republican and voted for Bush. I am just not ready to surrender to adolf bush and his conquor the world, bully, stealing (Enron, Halburton) lying, (remember the tax cuts we were promised) the rich got them I did not get mine. There are many other Republicans just like me. It is nothing personal to you but you seem blinded by your own ignorance or maybe you just don't care about your freedom.

hey gary, how about you shut up and listen. you are so stuck on your beliefs that you don't care to look at all sides of the issue. just listen to him and get opinions on both sides. then you can make your own opinions.

P.S you seem like you need a slap in the face

Edited by author 05-03-2004 12:12 PM
It really makes me afraid if I see how many of you are still following Bush and his administration. I am European and as most Europeans against the war in Iraq. And so when you start calling all anti-war peps and socialists stupid and naive than think of the fact that the majority of the world-population is against this war and so in the eyes of you right-winged Americans 'stupid'. We are almost praying overhere that Bush won't be re-elected because he is a serious thread to worldpeace. His foreign policy is very unpopular (not only Iraq) and I keep wondering : how does this war protect your freedom? Don't you see that it is this kind of actions that make the US very un-popular and that this war creates more hate and perhaps more terrorism against your country ? And what kind of freedom are we talking about? When we are flying as European citizen to the US these days we have our picture taken. From 2005 onwards we need one chip in our passport? This reminds me of the former Sovjet Union and the measures you had to go through whenever you wanted to visit Eastern Europe.
I'm employed in the music industry and from an American collegue I've heard that almost no non-american songs are
broadcasted through the american airwaves (clearchannel).
Musicians in America cannot have a hit in the US unless they get onto Clear Channel. Music will not make it onto Clear Channel unless it is harmonious with a hard right wing Christian worldview. I can imagine this worldview
allowing 'negro' artists being able to get away with some faux-dangerous watered down variations of sleaze as a disservice to their ethnicity, but nothing with any political substance like Public Enemy or Spearhead.

Do you call this freedom and freedom of speech ?

Friends..It seems that the messages from 'Gary' only tipify the common uneducated head-in-the-sand point of view that still seems prevalent in this age of super technology and media awareness. We can not blame him for this. He and others like him have been kept in the dark by politicians and big business so they can bulldoze their way through our lives with not only little resistance but actual support. I have but one statement for any pro-bush people. Even if you really believe that this administration is on the right track, how can you possible justify getting behind such an obviously poor representation of political leadership? I mean, no one believes that any politician is completely honest but the Bush admin are so transparent its ridiculous. The bear minimum anyone can expect from their political leaders is to not have to excuse every little move they make with 'on-going investigations' none ofwhich have any conclusions. If you're going to be a liar, be a good one. Everyone could see Bush and his cronies coming a mile away and its so obvious where they're going. Let go of your water-logged life jackets and head for the nearest shore..

Hi All,
I don't mean to have this sound opinionated in favor or against anyone but I need an answer to this question and preferably as succinct as possible:
What good has Bush done in his term as President?
Ideally a listing of 10 things.

Thanks for any help,
- Desperate and Optimistic

Well...he hasn't done a damn thing that was good :-)

BTW...you know that this QT topic has been dead for, like,foreever, right?
On Fri, 23 Jul 2004, QT - Desperate wrote:

>
< replied-to message removed by QT >

Any suggestions on a more active area to post my question?

For a few days I'd been searching for the New York Times article that described the youth of George W. Bush as including sticking firecrackers in frogs and blowing them up. I thought perhaps it was an urban legend. I've found it. The relevant portion:

In addition to church groups, various civic organizations were also active, and one of the local rituals for children was the meetings with cookies and milk at the home of a nice old lady who represented the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals.

The cookies were digested more thoroughly than the teachings.

''We were terrible to animals,'' recalled Mr. Throckmorton, laughing. A dip behind the Bush home turned into a small lake after a good rain, and thousands of frogs would come out.

''Everybody would get BB guns and shoot them,'' Mr. Throckmorton said. ''Or we'd put firecrackers in the frogs and throw them and blow them up.''

So...the question is, how is this different from the bastards who injured puppies in Oklahoma with firecrackers?

More importantly, is this a sign that our President is cruel himself? Perhaps even unbalanced? The signs are disturbing:

* During an interview with Talk Magazine, Bush mocks the reported plea of a woman on death row: "Please" Bush whimpers, "don't kill me."

* Bush is seen pumping his fist and saying "feels good" shortly before going on national television to announce the start of the war against Iraq.

* According to White House aides, Bush will go from quoting Bible verses to spewing obscenities at various "enemies of state" in a matter of minutes.

July 03, 2004 in Politics | Permalink

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