p.s. With regard to non-imagers being "fully functional", I know I'm not: because I have no visual mental imagery whatsoever, I have no way of having episodic/autobiographical memories -- there is no cognitive delivery mechanism for re-seeing things that I've seen before. So I operate on semantic memory alone. My only recollection of my past experiences is in the form of words that relate facts about my experiences. I cannot remember anything for which I haven't memorized facts as a narrative, because I have no mental way of displaying this information. The lack of being able to recall my past experiences in any experiential way is a severe form of amnesia.
Linda

Tony, you really don't seem to understand that people who have no mental imagery whatsoever can't "practice" it by doing your alphabet
visualizations, because there are no visuals to work with! That would be like telling a stone deaf person to improve their hearing by listening to music and singing along with it, when they can't hear the music at all. It's not a matter of trying to improve some capability which is weak; it's a matter of turning on a function that is turned off.
Linda

On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 8:59 AM, <QT-TonyBirch> wrote:

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John,

While you are frustrated, others appear quite happy with their lack of images. Some seem to have regarded images as completely unnecessary and possibly an incumbrace for clear thought.

There are numerous tips for expanding imagery capabiliites in this disscussion. Search back the last 2 years or so.

In my own exerience with hypnagogic images, I found it was simply a matter of relaxed attentivness.

Another exercise I try from time to time: visualize letters of the alphabet sequentially in different configurations (rotated 90 degrees, mirror image, etc.). Working with the alphabet is a particularly good exercise, I think, since word and character recognition is so deeply imbedded.

There are always the various tests and exercises I have on my site as well. The "corner counting" test uses the alphabet too.

Yes, sensory deprivation does cause hallucinations, but can be dangerous without supervision, and true sensory deprivation is very difficult to achieve. You might try milder forms of relaxation, such as looking up at clouds. What images come?

Todd,
In the spectrum of mental images, Hallucinations and Lack of image formation form thje two ends. If in Hallucinations you go to the right on the spectrum, it is exactly the opposite direction, the left, in Lack of image formation. Various stages of enhancement or fading form the middle of this spectrum.

Paul and Todd: Thank you for your comments. It's nice to know that there are others with the same condition. I am extremely frustrated my inability to see mental images while concious, not to mention trying to explain this lack of a "mind's eye" to a doctor. I have been aware of this since my early teens and I am determined to correct this.

Tony: What about sensory deprivation for this? Doesn't sensory deprivation cause one to hallucinate, see images and hear sounds that are not real? Is it possible for this to "jump start" the visual imagery?

Edited by author 03-19-2008 09:26 AM
Todd said: "At this point in life I would not want to gain the ability[of mental imagery], as I would probably go instantly insane with all of the "sights"."
Well, this is my biggest issue. I am a almost non-imager and I would like to become an imager (and I studied many possitive effects and I think that it would be a very good mental "upgrade" for me), but I have a lot of fear about this, like Todd told before. Even if I know that most people manages to have conscious images (and vivid), I don't know if I could "cope" with it. How can I get past of this fear?
Paul

Thanks Tony,

Interesting point about the scientific/rational mind, it makes a lot of sense.

One observation that I noticed interviewing the hundreds of people, is the amount of television they watched related to the amount of ability they had. It seemed like the worst imagers seemed watched much more TV than average. The one's that could "see" the best watched very little to none.

Can this phenomenon be seen under a MRI? Has anyone studied this with modern technology?

Todd

Todd,

Thanks for posting. Your story is quite familiar! The only thing that I know of that lack of imagery seems to be correlated with is having a scientific/rational mind. This impression is based on very old data, but seems supported by the fact that many of the non-imagers posting here are academics and/or have advanced degrees. If you review these posts you will see what I mean.

My impression is that although some non-imagers feel they are missing something, most seem to be fully functional.

Your story of being able to draw a floor plan corresponds with other accounts. What to make of it, I am not entirely sure at this point.

Tony

I have been conscious of being a non-imager for 5 years, although I had suspicions in school when the entire class was instructed to picture an apple in our minds. I have practiced and tried everything that I have read up on and tools that have been recommended to me. As far as I know, I do not currently dream, although I remember dreaming when I was younger (they were verbal dreams like being read a book). I can not see colors, shapes, lines or anything at all. I have a hard time understanding how people can see images. I would find that very distracting and feel like I would be less productive in life. On the other hand, I could see how taking a mental vacation from daily life would definitely help in the relaxation department. As I have been told by others, I probably store the images but there is a disconnect to my mind's eye. For example, I can draw a floorplan of the home I lived in 30 years ago, but I do not understand how I can without "seeing" it. At this point in life I would not want to gain the ability, as I would probably go instantly insane with all of the "sights". I find this subject very interesting and information is hard to come by. I have asked hundreds of people about their level of imagery and to date have found no one with the level as me (zero). Does anyone know if this is comorbid with any mental illnesses? Also, do non-imagers have any handicaps in life over imagers? Thanks in advance for any help or information on the subject.

hi, i'm just back from costa rica and looking forward to catching up on your recommended "readings." a little more about me, i'm retired social work professor from the university of michigan. ph.d in social psychology -i've been aware that what was going on in my head was different from the norm when we were asked to do these relaxation protocols that required envisioning a peaceful scene. ironically, since i couldn't, i'd get anxious. h

Lakhi,

Thanks for that update. Maybe not as safe as you would think. If my hypothesis is right, there is some mental imagery activity in "non-imagers," but they don't have conscious access to it. My imagery abilities are pretty normal or average, by the way.

Tony

Jack Gallant of UCB has reported the results of his research on Mental Imagery in 'Nature' using fMRI techniques. He says "It may soon be possible to reconstruct a picture of person's visual experience from measurements of brain activity alone" That makes persons with lack of Mental Imagery like me, Helen and Tony safe from the prying eyes of Jack and his machines.

Please also keep in mind that loss of Mental Imagery is the reverse of Hallucination. I would be happy with the former.
                                                  Lakhi

On 25/02/2008, QT - helen a2 <qtopic-20-Z85yvCpH8FP@quicktopic.com> wrote: >
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thanks lakhi, neela, tony, i'm looking forward to viewing your comments/websites when i return home from costa rica. best.