I predict these things will become defacto mandatory. If you don't agree to use one, car insurance will be unaffordable. And courts will start to subpoena the data from the black boxed as soon ass they are in use.

Don't some car rental outfits already put a version of these in their cars? As I recall, they're hooked up to GSP so the company can see not only your speed, etc, but where you were driving. What Patriot Who Has Nothing To Hide could refuse?

Edited by author 03-13-2003 02:00 PM
my mother-in-law works for a small-town judge in central michigan,
and they recently had a case where a young kid t-boned an 85-year
old who ran a stopsign. the DA is all over this case, to prosecute the
kid, based on the speed-history _already_ stored in some sort of
black box in his personal truck (i don't know what brand truck.)
the black box exists _today_! and they're already
trying to integrate it into the legal system.

scary.

Don't forget, just change article to article_email...

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/0,,SB1...ions%5Fprimary%5Fhs and suddenly no subscription needed.

Black boxes are already on passenger cars. Many cars have an onboard network, sharing data between modules on board. Vehicles speed, engine RPM, throttle angle, etc. are available as data parameters sent out at regular intervals over the vehicle's data bus.

So, the airbag module normally captures this information and it is available (if the module survives the crash) upon interrogation using appropriate tools.

already here and being used to prosecute-
"But the vehicular homicide charge Zimmerman now faces rests on the evidence police found days after the accident; after police obtained this search warrant to extract the so called black box from her mangled sport utility vehicle. "
http://www.thebostonchannel.com/automotive...ail.html?type=print

Edited by author 03-13-2003 04:42 PM
Hope plans don't include "cockpit" recorders. All of the worst things I'm capable of saying, I say while driving.

Of course, there is the issue of can the recorded speed be
trusted if one or more wheels has left contact with the ground
and was spinning freely?

A 'black box' that only records a few minutes, and cannot
broadcast it in any way, doesn't seem too bad privacy wise, if
the only time people investigate it is after a crash the car
won't be driving away from.

There is a thing called a 'CarChip' which perhaps this black
box is based on. The CarChip records a lot more than would be
needed for figuring out fault in an accident, though.

http://www.davisnet.com/drive/products/carchip.asp

The Ontario Provincial Police have been using these for about 6 years. Thats how long they have been in some cars.

Some interesting notes here:

http://www.tarorigin.com/ARnews/ARnews6-99/0919.html

Apparently the OPP took the time to crash 4 vehicles to independently verify (with separate instrumentation) how well the recorders would assist reconstruction. Another article here:

http://www.accidentreconstruction.com/news/mar01/031901c.asp

discusses the use to determine how severe an accident was (the car left a bridge, and the accelerometer could determine how quickly it stopped when hitting the ground).

I've also heard of cases where left-turning drivers who were struck claim the oncoming straight-through vehicle was going too quickly. The black box data confirmed this was not the case.

It sounds like the taxi recorders are like current car recorders - a crash triggers a lock in of the previous 5 seconds worth of info. As I understand it, at all other times, they continuously loop over the 5 seconds. So - if you were pulled over while just driving, the last 5 seconds will be the low speed of you pulling off to the shoulder. Not to incriminating there...

As always, watch for technology changes...

This will change the future plots of Law and Order forever.

It should be noted that it isn't a matter of safety, but one of legality. You are on a road and traveling at 10 mph under the speed limit -- are you at a safe speed? 10 mph over -- are you at an unsafe speed? Don't know; all you can say is that you are at a legal or illegal speed. It's uncertain at best that these devices will add to safety; they will make it possible for your insurance to deny or lessen your claims, however. That's what they're interested in -- if they get that through safety, that's fine with them, but if they get it through something that has no effect on safety, that's fine with them too. These boxes are about bottom lines, not about safety.

The privacy concerns people have about automobile blackboxes are definately understandable. If these privacy issues versus the advantages of collecting this data has always been a hot matter of debates--these work for the organizations, but can work against the individual.

What if this data could be collected, but only the owner
of the car could retieve it? This way the crash data can be volunteered to provide critical information for scientists, or to help exonerate themselves in the event of an accident. If this was implemented, would people be more accepting of automobile black boxes?

No real changes for privacy. NYC cabs have allways kept a written log, and many now have passenger compartment cameras.

Craig, if the individual can choose to provide it, then it could also be subpeonaed. I think the right against self-incrimination only covers testimony, not other forms of evidence.

And your insurance company could be counted on to make your providing this info to them part of their contract.

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Edited by author 07-15-2008 05:36 PM
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