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Topic: World of Ends
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David WeinbergerPerson was signed in when posted  1
03-06-2003 09:42 PM ET (US)
This is a place to talk about World of Ends by Doc Searls and David Weinberger.
Kevin MarksPerson was signed in when posted  2
03-06-2003 10:35 PM ET (US)
Splendid! I just munged it into Docuemnt Review as well, for para by para commenting:
http://www.quicktopic.com/19/D/BqUadhXZEuf.html
David WeinbergerPerson was signed in when posted  3
03-06-2003 11:05 PM ET (US)
Thank you, Kevin. In fact, I just posted it to a different doc review board at QuickTopic for setion-by-section review instead of paragraph-by-paragraph. We're forking already! :)

So, this is the new Official WorldofEnds discussion board:
http://www.quicktopic.com/19/D/gvZLPUTT8g93c.html
Deborah Branscum  4
03-07-2003 03:21 AM ET (US)
It's about time someone laid out the facts of Internet life so clearly and so well. I'm not convinced the boneheads who insist on equating the net with TV are ready to give up their cherished but demented notion just yet. Now, at least, I have somewhere to direct these folks for re-education. Nice job, fellas!
DC Stultz  5
03-07-2003 07:24 AM ET (US)
Doc & Dave,

Well done! (As usual... I'd expect nothing less from the two of you)

Of course, you are -- at least in the short run -- preaching to the choir (I'm the grey beard in back singing off key), but we can hope that eventually you will be able to move the Dumb Dingbats into the Smart Mob.

dc
Martin Lloyd  6
03-07-2003 08:26 AM ET (US)
This is good stuff, I'd suggest an addition though. Time and time again the words internet and web get used interchangably. Perhaps this site should make clear that 'the internet' supports everything from the web to ftp, email and newsgroups, as well as more esoteric stuff like IP telephony.

The Internet is as you say an agreement, one which has managed to suport an incredible number of applications. That point is missed all too often, and at the highest levels.
Ken Camp  7
03-07-2003 09:01 AM ET (US)
Can you figure out how to deliver this via TiVo so that perhaps we might get Michael Powell to read it?

Nice job gents, as always! I agree with Martin. I think it's really important to delineate between the net and applications that happen to run over the net. You describe email as one example, but perhaps a bit more in that explanation.
Michael O'Connor Clarke  8
03-07-2003 01:54 PM ET (US)
Excellent stuff, as always from you two.

From a first quick reading, one curious (possibly) inadvertent juxtaposition in the text really jumped out at me. You quote Keynes:

"In the long run, we're all dead."

And immediately follow with:

"We'd like to avoid the wait."

Don't know about you, but this reads kind of like a ‘just shoot me’ suicide plea. And why is Paul barefoot?

My one other hiccup over this piece is regarding the rallying cry you've chosen to end on:

"We have nothing to lose but our stupidity"

Lovely. But without over-complicating things, I feel the need to draw a distinction in this context between ‘stupidity’ and ‘stupidness’.

Stupidity is indeed something we should hope to lose, or hope big business, the recording industry, the telcos will lose.

Stupidness, on the other hand, is a value to be treasured, protected, nurtured.

That the Net has stupidness built in to its very architecture is, as they point out, the best thing about it.

The inherent stupidness of the Net works to the benefit of humankind, in the same way Chance the Gardener’s “stupidness” works to the benefit of those around him. Sellers' character in Being There achieves extraordinary prominence, influence, and is even capable of miracles – quite simply because he “doesn’t know any better”. Same with the Net. Napster, Google, the human genome project – none of these innovations would be possible without the quintessential stupidness of the Internet.

So. We have nothing to lose but our stupidity; but let our stupidness know no bounds!

My favourite point in the whole thing is the first of "the Internet's three virtues":

a. No one owns it.

I've been trotting round companies recently, talking to people about building a successful communications strategy for their intRAnet projects, and trying to preach a Cluetrain-inspired message to the effect that, if they want a successful intranet, and a motivated, engaged workforce - they should relinquish ownership.

As with the Internet, so with the intranet, imho.
Daniel Pádua  9
03-08-2003 08:03 AM ET (US)
Hi Doc, David, everybody,

I'm my opinion, World of Ends is already part of the History of Thinking. I've never seen such clear, simple and direct explanation about what we feel reading our blogs, talking at our IMs, sharing our files and exchanging our emails. Thanks for expressing the obvious in such simple and condensed way.

By the way, there is already a portuguese version for the text, made by Rainer Brockerhoff:
http://www.brockerhoff.net/bb/viewtopic.php?t=10

See ya,
Dpadua (www.dpadua.org)
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