without the images my goerge bush moon drivel isn't quite as effective .. so incase this quicktopic place doesn't support tags - to see it goto -

http://citizenjones.typepad.com


 
<img alt="mn_bush_space.jpg" src="http://citizenjones.typepad.com/citizenjon...ush_space-thumb.jpg" width="350" height="230" border="0" />

As the perceptive former English teacher, Sting, mentions. "I hope my leg don't break walking on the Moon."

So who's going to teach Mr. President to Moon Walk? Surely not Sting. You have to learn how to moon walk there's no doubt about that sir, and we all know who the master of that particular talent is ..

<img alt="moonwalk.jpg" src="http://citizenjones.typepad.com/citizenjones/moonwalk.jpg" width="151" height="229" border="0" />

"Bush suggested the moon might be used as a fuel depot and manufacturing site to stage longer mission, avoiding the need to escape Earth's gravity on atrip to a distant planet. It's unclear how such a plan would save any expenses in the long run, however, because nearly all the components and supplies for a moon camp almost surely would have to be lifted up from Earth anyway." -SF Chronicle

Walking On The Moon by Sting and the Police

<img alt="sting.jpg" src="http://citizenjones.typepad.com/citizenjones/sting-thumb.jpg" width="350" height="246" border="0" />


Giant steps are what you take
Walking on the moon
I hope my legs don't break

<img alt="babylegs2.jpg" src="http://citizenjones.typepad.com/citizenjones/babylegs2.jpg" width="188" height="250" border="0" />

Walking on the moon
We could walk for ever
Walking on the moon
We could live together
Walking on, walking on the moon

<stong>Walking back from your house
Walking on the moon</strong>

<img alt="moon.jpg" src="http://citizenjones.typepad.com/citizenjones/moon.jpg" width="175" height="153" border="0" />

Walking back from your house
Walking on the moon
Feet they hardly touch the ground
Walking on the moon
My feet don't hardly make no sound
Walking on, walking on the moon

<img alt="moonfootnosound.jpg" src="http://citizenjones.typepad.com/citizenjon...otnosound-thumb.jpg" width="350" height="262" border="0" />

Some may say
I'm wishing my days away, no way
And if it's the price I pay, some say
Tomorrow's another day, you'll stay
I may as well play

Giant steps are what you take
Walking on the moon

<img alt="giant20steps.jpg" src="http://citizenjones.typepad.com/citizenjon...nt20steps-thumb.jpg" width="250" height="360" border="0" />

I hope my legs don't break
Walking on the moon

<img alt="babylegsincast.gif" src="http://citizenjones.typepad.com/citizenjones/babylegsincast.gif" width="163" height="292" border="0" />


We could walk for ever
Walking on the moon
We could be together
Walking on, walking on the moon

<img alt="moon3.gif" src="http://citizenjones.typepad.com/citizenjones/moon3-thumb.gif" width="299" height="294" border="0" />

Some may say
I'm wishing my days away no way
And if it's the price I pay, some say

"Bush said he would add $1 billion to NASA's $15.5 billion budget over the next five years and reallocate $11 billion in existing space agency programs to support the moon-Mars effort." - Houston Chronicle

Tomorrow's another day, you'll stay
I may as well play

<img alt="scan0001.jpg" src="http://citizenjones.typepad.com/citizenjones/scan0001-thumb.jpg" width="350" height="282" border="0" />

Aargh, no, must resist plugging DVDs...

No, I can't do it. Have you seen Killer Robot? It's a Machinima feature film about robots on Mars - I mention it not least because it includes a factual animation about one possible way to use robot missions to build a base for manned expeditions. I think. I wasn't too clear on the details - it's cool, but kinda technical.

Oh, yeah, and the film's really good too, using all artificial voices.

The Russian "plan" is pretty sketchy on details. They claim to be able to get to Mars for $3 to $5 billion. That assumes that every single thing goes right. That also assumes the "Clipper" is built on time, in budget (and that price tag does not include the price of the Clipper). And it also mandates reliance on some boosters that have a less than stellar record.

I'm all for the plan. I hope it goes forward, a little competition is good! But, I have more faith in the Mars Society getting "Mars Direct" going than this one.

(On the other hand, using left over modules from the Mir replacement and the like does give the whole thing a lovely Stephen Baxter alt-space-history feel to it!)

The Alliance for Justice has launched a new website urging Justice Scalia to recuse himself from the Cheney energy case! Check it out: www.ChooseToRecuse.org Scalia can recuse himself anytime before the Supreme Court renders its decision.
There is a great flash animation that goes with it too. You have to see "Quid Pro Quack" http://www.allianceforjustice.org/action/scalia/flash.htm Duck'em!

Natacha, why don't you get back to us when the "Alliance for Justice" starts asking for Justice Ruth Bader Ginsberg to recuse herself from all cases involving NOW and NARAL. Until then, spare us the spam.

Back to the topic at hand...

Well, at least it's too late for the current administration to do any further "budget optimizations" that could potentially disturb the Cassini mission. I've been looking forward to its eventual findings ever since watching Cosmos and hearing Carl Sagan so enthusiastically speculate on a variety of subjects dealing with Saturn and Titan.

Here's to the Huygens touching down and fulfilling its mission without a hitch.

FWIW, Hugens landing is next January, not this July. And the good news is that current thinking is its likely to be a splashdown, not a touchdown. Ever better ir pictures of the surface taken by the Keck and the VLT suggest that it will land in one of the dark bits of the surface, likely (but not certain) to be seas of methane/ethane and some other stuff.

Nearly as important as the engineering and technical aspects, I'm forced to wonder just what type of human organization will be required to build something like this. What will the costs be and can enough interest in the long range benefits be generated for this project?

Perhaps recent engineering efforts like The Chunnel could serve as a guide, at least on the organizational aspect of it.

But I get the impression that neither private enterprise nor government organizations alone could do the job. It would take some type of consortium.

Any thoughts?

Respects,
Steve
From Flyover Country, U.S.

I live in hope of maybe actually getting to see the Earth from orbit before I die of old age.

Personally, I hope to see Earth from orbit after I die from old age. The first time.

after I die from old age. The first time.

Sign me up. Mind you - perhaps a before and after, just so you can say you were lucky enough to do it first time round; pre-sleeving.

On a slighlty unrelated note - I just went on an aerobatic flight as a gift. After that, a space plane of somekind is the only thrill left so need this more!

Steven: the budget proposals I've seen start with $7-9Bn for a first space elevator. It would be able to launch a 1-2 ton satellite into geosynchronous orbit once a week and after the fixed construction costs the running costs would be an order of magnitude lower than a comparable booster. As Ariane V cost $5Bn to develop, and the Airbus A380 around 6Bn, this isn't beyond the capacity of private industry.

The sting in the tail is that if satellite launch customers aren't using the skyhook to capacity the spare capacity can be used to launch additional fullerene tapes, allowing it to be expanded or additional elevators to be built -- so the cost comes down rapidly once it's up. In other words, the money to fund elevator #1 is available because it costs as much as any other medium launch vehicle to build, and it rapidly turns into an enormous cash cow.

Methinks the usual tech investors will be salivating over this one just as soon as the materials technology gets there ...

Apropos the experience thing, I'm with the rest of you guys. I'm just trying to be cautious.

The rightful name is 'Beanstalk', not 'space elevator'.

Mars is a -very- interesting place, scientifically. The Moon is a gravity well, a pointless waste of Delta-V on the way to Mars and the Main Belt.

What makes you think Mars is dead? On Earth, life seems to extend back in the geological record as far back as we can read it. Extrapolating from this one sample (very, very dangerous statistically) leads to one of several possible alternatives:
1) Life is quite likely to arise, given suitable conditions.
2) Life arrived on the Earth from space.
3) The conditions for life forming are only present in the very early geological history of planets. For example, organic molecules formed in space may be required, and these are swept clear from solar systems shortly after their formation.

In either case (1) or (2), life is likely on Mars, although it's going to be single-cell organisms that live in rock.

Looking at the history of Earth life, the hardest part seems to be going from single-cell organisms to multicellular organisms. This took 4 billion years. After that, it was only a short 600 million years until we got to intelligent life and technological civilization.

The Moon is where we put the high-level waste from the restarted fission programme, until we can think of a better use for it. Not useless at all. The beanstalk provides a nice slow safe way of getting the stuff there.

[ Just back from Brussels ...]

Yup, I've been saying this for a while: the problem with fission reactors isn't high level waste, it's high level waste in close proximity to a biosphere. I've seen cost estimates of $7-9Bn to build a version 1.0 space elevator ... and $7Bn to build the Yucca Mountain waste repository, which will only be storing high-level waste for the USA. Frankly, the space elevator is looking like a more and more attractive option all the time.

"..I figure is a hell of a lot more likely to give Feorag and myself a holiday in orbit before we're 65 than any rocket technology..."

In case you haven't seen it yet the documentary "Black Sky The Race For Space" about SpaceShipOne does a nice job of showing that the dream of orbital holidays is alive and well and in some pretty capable hands. ( http://shopping.discovery.com/stores/servl...717&catalogId=10000 ) I'm not saying they're going to succeed, but you really get the feeling that the future is back on track.