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Answering machines

10
Pat. YorkPerson was signed in when posted
09-09-2002
05:08 PM ET (US)
Dan, this discussion is slowly making me come around to your way of thinking, at least when the artist can be trusted to look for that balance you describe.

I remember well the Psycho Girlfriend tapes and how they revealed, perhaps, more about the man who made them public than the crazed, desperate woman. It's an excellent example of the sort of abuse I was thinking of in the tapes you described. But I see your point now. How much of art is, after all, balance. But in an art world of cut-up cows jars of urine, art doesn't look all that balanced all the time!

This has been an interesting discussion!
Edited 09-09-2002 05:11 PM
9
Dan Z.Person was signed in when posted
09-08-2002
08:45 PM ET (US)
...maybe one's face and written notes are more public than the messages one leaves on a private answering machine?

I think you can make a better case for publicizing art found in thrift stores than you can for publicizing random pictures or notes found on the street. The items in thrift stores have the virtue of being voluntarily donated, and not merely lost or accidentally dropped.

But ultimately, like I said before, I think it's about balance. The guy who did the Psycho Ex-girlfriend site a few months back, I thought was going way too far. His motivation seemed to be simple cruelty. I'm sure his friends all knew who this woman was, and I'm sure she was mortified and embarrassed (maybe tortured isn't going too far) to have her rawest emotions posted for mockery's sake.

Good found art reveals something universal without identifying, endangering, or injuring the person who made it. That's what I mean by balance, anyway..
8
Pat YorkPerson was signed in when posted
09-08-2002
05:37 PM ET (US)
Hmm....I've seen Found Magazine and somehow it didn't set out the ethical sirens that sampling voices did. I'm not sure why, but maybe one's face and written notes are more public than the messages one leaves on a private answering machine? I'm not sure. Actually I love found art and what it says about the person and society. Have you ever made art with your own notes, photos, phone messages, etc? I'd like to see that.

We definately don't hang in the same crowds. I know a number of people so young, old, drunk, drugged, ill, or mentally slow that I'm quite sure they don't understand how their answering machines work.
7
Dan Z.Person was signed in when posted
09-08-2002
03:33 PM ET (US)
Pat, I guess I just don't think tape-based answering machines are as mystifying to the general populace as you seem to think.

I would assume you're against the concept of found art in general, right? Sites like Found magazine take notes, receipts, snippets of audio, and other bits of cultural flotsam and post them to the web. I'm a strong believer in personal privacy,too, but I also think art is where you find it. The most compelling bits of insight into ourselves aren't often found in galleries.

I also think you're ignoring the possibility that a balance can be struck between information that's personal but essentially anonymous, and information which is personal and specific. There's a difference between posting a note you found at the laundromat and posting someone's Social Security # and address with it.

For what it's worth, I don't think it's a bad thing that thrift stores are trying to be more conscientious about their donors' privacy, but I do miss the bits of found art I'd discover there.
Edited 09-08-2002 03:41 PM
6
Pat YorkPerson was signed in when posted
09-08-2002
12:41 PM ET (US)
Those of us who are highly adept at understanding technology find it hard to believe that there are people out there who are light years away from us in their thinking.

I know people--plenty of them--who don't understand their tech at all. I'm betting the owners or inheritors of those machines didn't really grok that they had to remove a tape. It worked and they weren't sure how, but they were content with that. Their heirs or the next people to own the machines may not have thought through the tech any better than the original owners. After all, even the thrift shop didn't think through all the implications the way a creative guy like you did until they came to realize what you and others were doing.

It's hard to imagine what harm two seconds can do, I know, but I can recognize my family and friends' voices in way under two seconds, so who knows?

I guess I'm a major advocate of personal privacy and I hate to see it violated even when the violation is relatively benign, just because the person being violated didn't know any better than to protect his/her communications.

Smashing my machine? Merely hyperbole. Actually, I, too, hate my digital machine. When I won a Fulbright and later when I was on the final ballot for the Nebula, I took the tapes full of congratulations from friends out and saved them. I can't do that with a digital machine.
5
Dan Z.Person was signed in when posted
09-08-2002
03:52 AM ET (US)
Pat, to answer your question, no. The samples I used were just that -- short, 2-second-long isolated snippets or phrases. Not entire messages.

I'd disagree with your characterization of the whole answering machine phenomenon as simple people unwittingly giving away their precious private information. After all, the thing's got a tape in it. It's not a secret. If you donated your private videotapes to a thrift store, I'd assume you didn't care much about what was on them or who saw them, either.

The fact that people didn't seem to care enough to take out the tapes is what interested me in the first place. It's not every appliance that can tell you the story of how it got abandoned.

As for smashing your own answering machine with a hammer? That's overkill. If it's analog, you can just take out the tape. If it's digital, simply unplug the thing from the wall and take out the backup battery, if it has one.
4
Pat YorkPerson was signed in when posted
09-07-2002
10:09 PM ET (US)
Dan, did you ever feel you were unfairly violating these peoples' privacy by using their voices this way?

The thrift stores 'wised up' in that they protected those who had given something to charity without realizing that they were giving up their personal information.

Next time I have an old answering machine to give away, I'll take a hammer to it instead.
Edited 09-07-2002 10:09 PM
3
Dan Z.Person was signed in when posted
09-06-2002
10:06 PM ET (US)
I miss answering machines. In the 90's, when I'd go thrifting with my buddies, I'd go to the used answering machine section and lift out all the tapes. Then I'd go to the used stereo section and grab a pair of used headphones and listen to them. It was an amazing experience every time -- you could learn a lot about who last owned an answering machine by the messages that were on their final tape. The best tapes I bought and turned into techno samples.

Then the flow of tape-based answering machines began to slow down to a trickle in the mid 90s, and the thrift stores wised up and began taking the tapes out of the answering machines before they put them on the shelves. Now I hardly ever see tape-based answering machines anymore, and thrifting has lost some of its lustre for me.

Hooray answering machines! Boo voicemail!
2
b
09-06-2002
07:17 PM ET (US)
"The medium is the message, but sometimes we prefer a little more."
1
Stefan JonesPerson was signed in when posted
09-06-2002
06:56 PM ET (US)
I don't know if he made it up himself, but my brother's message is probably the most succinct I've heard:

"You know what to do."

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