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Topic: Brock on alleged INS abuses
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Slowjoe  6
08-08-2002 11:48 AM ET (US)
To robertl30,

You are probably right. After all, there is no known instance of US law enforcement personnel mistreating anyone, right?

Rodney King was a mirage, right?

Now that I have your attention, of course it isn't clear whether this article is a hoax. On the other hand, INS doesn't deny that the guy had interaction with them, and claim to have investigated the incident.

So I have to ask you, how would you feel if it turned out that everything the guy says is true? Because it sounds to me like you are in denial.
robertl30  5
08-08-2002 11:32 AM ET (US)
What a load of horsehockey. I got hooked on boingboing because of the insightful, fun, interesting articles. But this thing is just nonsense. It reads like a hoax. I had to stop reading 3/4 way through cause it was just getting too silly. We don't do those things in the U.S. And if we did do something to upset the guy, then the guy deserved it. He either did something or said something bad. Or he was a terrorist. Good riddence. Sheesh.
Slowjoe  4
08-08-2002 11:09 AM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-08-2002 11:10 AM
I'm very interested by the people who claim that this article must be a fabrication. Why do they do this?

Are they not familiar with the fact that Ashcroft has introduced unlimited detention without trial for non-US citizens? I've been seriously informed (as a while caucasian UK citizen) _never_ to speak to US immigration unless spoken to, on the basis that if the other guy takes offence, I'll be in a world of hurt.

Remember, civil rights in the US are only available to citizens.
Cory DoctorowPerson was signed in when posted  3
08-08-2002 10:00 AM ET (US)
Chip, here's a followup from Gilmore on IP:

http://www.interesting-people.org/archives...00208/msg00040.html

From: John Gilmore <gnu@toad.com>
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 02:26:46 -0700
To: farber@cis.upenn.edu

> I have no idea how true this is but it is getting a lot of play in SA and
> the UK. Try putting Ricardo Abude into goggle for references. If true it is
> a serious problem.

It is a serious problem, which I have seen in my own life.

I was visited by a friend (who I'll call Mike) in June 2002.
He's an Australian citizen who I met in the US when he was working in
Silicon Valley and taking yoga classes in the same school I was. He
had a "green card" good for residence in the US. We have been
business partners and good friends for years, and I've visited him in
his family home in Australia, as he has visited me in mine in
California.

In June he told me a strange story. Upon his arrival in the US from
Australia, he was harassed by the IRS and given the same kind of
choice as what Richard Abude has described. The IRS agents took him
into confinement and said that he could either "voluntarily" give up
his green card, or they would hold him imprisoned in their
no-man's-land "for a few days until a judge can hear your case". They
told him that if he lost his case in front of the judge, he would be
immediately deported. They would not allow him to call his
immigration lawyer, or to make any other phone calls before deciding
what to do. If he "voluntarily" gave up his card, then they would
give him a tourist visa so he could finish his trip in the US.

Like too many others, he signed. I read his copy of the paperwork
that they gave him after signing. It made no mention of this Hobson's
choice. It said that he was "voluntarily" asking to give up his green
card. It claimed that he was not under any compulsion. It was a
total fabrication. The document was witnessed and signed by several
INS agents. Those agents perjured themselves.

Mike talked with his immigration attorney while he was in the US. The
INS agents had lied about the result of losing his case in front of a
judge (he would likely get to stay in the US for his visit anyway).

The whole story made me disgusted to be a US citizen. WE are
responsible for this ill-treatment of our friends, neighbors, and
visitors. WE elected the people who created these rules and WE pay
the salaries of the people who abuse these rules. WE need to stop
them. Foreigners are powerless to stop them.

Congress was hoodwinked into giving the INS unprecedented power over
the lives of ordinary citizens. The natural result of giving
swaggering stormtrooopers unchecked power is now playing itself out.
No wonder the rest of the world contains so many people who hate us!

I have visited at least dozen countries, and the country that
mistreats its arriving visitors the worst is the US. We really have
little competition in that regard. I dread entering the US and
subjecting myself to those evil bastards. And I'm a US citizen, who
supposedly has some actual rights despite being at the border!

We used to live in a free country. Evil people are ending our freedom
as rapidly as they can. The lesson that they learned from terrorists
is that terrorizing people *works*. So they are terrorizing our own
populace with constant "alerts"; terrorizing visiting foreigners with
lies, confinement, inhumane treatment, and arbitrary processes; and
tracking everyone's movements and communications to making people
afraid to speak out or organize against them. Just as we can blame
the "good Germans" who let the Nazis take over their country, we must
blame ourselves if we do not stop the evil people who are stealing the
power of American freedom and running amok with it.

    John Gilmore

PS: Dave, please publish this with my name on it. After suing John
Ashcroft last month for making citizens show IDs to fly, I'm sure I am
already on all the government's "screw this guy" enemies lists. But
the worse the treatment the evil INS bastards heap on my head, the
more likely I am to win the subsequent court case against them, ending
their reign of terror. Far too many people are refusing to speak out
about these monsters because they fear retaliation. We have seen in
many other countries that silence in the face of jackbooted thugs just
results in more stomping -- until enough people find their voices.
Here's mine.


------ End of Forwarded Message
Chip at Unicom.comPerson was signed in when posted  2
08-07-2002 10:38 PM ET (US)
I think it was poor judgement to post this article. All we've got here is an unsubstantiated screed, and the suggestion that a respected journalist is investigating. Mark, why couldn't you wait until Brock reported back?

I'm really surprised to find this sort of unsubstantiated, sensational posting on Boing Boing. This story isn't even worthy of Fark.
TimmyT  1
08-07-2002 08:11 PM ET (US)
That's pretty disgusting if true.<br>

"Ricardo is the brother of a friend of mine, a Rotarian from the same club as I, so I'm publishing his story without any doubt that it is completely true."

That seems kinda suspicious.
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