Flying an airplane does not require the signing of a contract that could be damaging to a company if rescinded later. Keep in mind that even if the minor's parent/guardian signs the contract by proxy, the contract can still be cancelled at a later date-- i.e. the minor could effectively decide later that the content submitted should effectively be 'unsubmitted'.

In the case of the plane, if the contract is rescinded, you don't fly.. that simple. For Apple, not so simple-- imagine what would happen if Apple were legally required to remove the changes in a critical file because a minor or minor's parents/guardian decided they no longer wanted to play ball.

The problem is that, just like a minor cannot sign a legally binding contract, once signed by proxy there are still special 'undo' clauses offered in the name of protecting the minor's rights.

(From reading all the noise on the subject, I have a feeling we don't have the full story.)

Just as a comparison - anyone understand how people 14 and 15 years old get a pilot's license?

I'm having trouble with the idea that it's OK to fly an airplane at age 15 but it's not ok to write an operating system.

You raise good points, Erik, but that doesn't address the point that Apple could have trated this kid with respect, found a way to accomodate him, rather than blow him off and send him on a wild goose chase. Child hacker genii is what Apple is FOR!

What this kid needs is what black folks used in the bad old days---a sympathetic frontman. Dad signs the agreements in his own name, but his daughter does the work. She gets the fun and ego boo of seeing her work in use, the company (which may actually understand the situation) is covered and everybody is, if not happy, getting what they want. I've actually heard that this is done in the case of kids who want to play themarket online.

In my limited understanding, a child of sixteen or so can become an emancipated minor if he/she or his/her parents can prove a pressing need for it.

Wonder what would happen if the child became a citizen of another country. Would Apple behave the same way?

Challenging a minor's participation in an Open Source project has likely never happened. It doesn't make sense. For that matter, a lot of legal folk believe strongly that a number of the open source licenses out there are unenforceable anyway. Very likely, it would be possible to legally challenge the contributions of a minor to an open source project and cause hell -- but what would be the point?

Apple's NDA is a completely different story. There most definitely is intellectual property [IP] at risk and that IP very definitely affects Apple's revenue [Darwin as the foundation of OS X]. Furthermore, there are any number of parties in the industry that would love to effectively 'bust' Apple's NDAs for a number of purposes-- even if it is just to cause hell.

Apple has a vested interest in ensuring that their contracts are as tight as possible. If the execution of a contract with a minor through a parent or guardian isn't actually possible or is expensive, they have good reason not to go there [as much as it sucks for Finlay and others in the same situation].

No, Cory, you can't have the parents sign the NDA and make it binding on the child. You can only bind *the parent* -- and the very few contracts that minors are allowed to enter into involve just that. This means that the parent can't tell the secrets. This helps Apple how?

You *cannot* write a legal NDA that will legal estop a minor from disclosure. About the only contracts minors can enter into involve sports and the arts -- and, once again, they mostly bind the parents. Most of that is CA law, designed to protect famous kids from explotation by thier guardians.

Furthermore, if Apple accepted an NDA, I could see various child labour laws being invoked.

In short, while the fact this kid can't hack Darwin sucks, it leaves Apple open to way to much if they don't close him down.

Interestingly enough, if he lives in WA, he can petition for emancipation as a minor, and become a legal adult.

In the netherlands there is something called '(beperkte) handlichting' - handlifting or emancipation would be a close translation of the dutch/french term. Most common cases are young people starting small shops or having to run, say, a farm at an early age. Which is a process in which a minor, with the permession of his parents, gets (usually limited) permission to enter into binding agreements. Part of this process is a publication to 'warn' the world of this minor running wild.

They probably should have made it clear from the beginning that anyone under 18 cannot enter into a NDA. Beyond that, it is a matter of state law.

This is going to be a growing problem as open-source continues to expand it's influence. How do you determine that a developer you have never seen or are not likely to have physical contact with is legally capable of entering into a contract? Up till now, it's not been a real problem, but this IS going to get ugly in the future as companies start to examine legal ramifications of open-source contracts.

If humans were honorable, we wouldn't be facing this issue, but let's face it, people suck.

They were welcome to approach the kid's parents for a waiver, too. The runaround and bullshit they fed him is totally anti-customer, anti-hacker and anti-Apple. Apple does TONS of stuff with kids -- educational markets are their bread and butter -- and should have the expertise in house to cope with this without treating this guy this way.

COPPA - see the EFF FAQ. It prevents Apple from collecting information on minors without parental consent. Add to that the fact that minors cannot enter into certain contractual obligations, their lawyers probably felt justified in the action. I would probably do the same thing given the requirements for NDA's.

It may not be right, but it is a reflection of the litigious nature of our society.

There are zillions of under-age contributors to other OSS projects, and minors CAN enter into limited contracts. This is KPMG-grade, lawyer-driven cluelessness on Apple's part.

Apple doesn't want to lose NDA protection by signing a contract with a minor. Considering that, if they did, they'd have no standing in court whatsoever, I can't blame them.

NDA are just that -- contracts. Minors *may not* enter into contracts, period. Therefore, Minors can't sign NDA's.

Exactly. Minors can't enter into contracts, which is what an open-source license is.

I think this is more a case of Apple not dealing with the legal ramifications in a transparent manner.

Clearly (haha) they're exluding this 18 year old "'cause the lawyers said so". They just need to make it obvious that Apple legal doesn't think they can risk signing agreement with parties that may not be regarded as adults under the law.