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Fast Food Nation

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15
Eliza B
04-29-2002
01:14 PM ET (US)
When you're done with this one, pick up "Nickled and Dimed: on (not) getting by in America", if you're interested in the worker's plight. (warning: it's kind of pretentious and offensive that some middle-aged white woman of relative means would go do all this just to write about it, while all the time having this kind of safety net...but it's good some of this is being said. My jury's still out on whether she should be lauded or flogged.) It's just out in paperback, in fact.
14
joshua neff
04-25-2002
08:26 PM ET (US)
During the time Disney helped organize the independent filmmakers against the industry's mainstream, he was also accompanying Lessing to American Nazi Party meetings and rallies.

According to Arthur Babbitt, "In the immediate years before we entered the war, there was a small but fiercely loyal, I suppose legal, following of the Nazi party. You could buy a copy of Mein Kampf on any newsstand in Hollywood. Nobody asked me to go to any meetings, but I did, out of curiosity. They were open meetings, anybody could attend, and I wanted to see what was going on for myself.

"On more than one occasion I observed Walt Disney and Gunther Lessing there, along with a lot of other prominent Nazi-afflicted [sic] Hollywood personalities. Disney was going to meetings all the time. I was invited to the homes of several prominent actors and musicians, all of whom were actively working for the American Nazi Party. I told a girlfriend of mine who was an editor at the time with Coronet magazine who encouraged me to write down what I observed. She had some connections to the FBI and turned in my reports."*

If Disney and Lessing were sympathetic to the American Nazi movement, their interest was most likely motivated by the desire to regain favor with the once-lucrative, Nazi-occupied countries where Disney films were now banned. To that end Walt was also committed to the "America First" movement and became one of Hollywood's most active prewar isolationists.

*The existence of these reports has been neither confirmed nor denied by the FBI.
In her memoirs German filmmaker Leni Riefenstahl claims that after Kristallnacht she approached every studio in Hollywood looking for work. No studio head would even screen her movies except Walt Disney. He told her that he admired her work but if it became known that he was considering hiring her, it would damage his reputation.


--from Walt Disney: Hollywood's Dark Prince by Marc Eliot, pp. 120-121. (It's out of print now, but you can see the Amazon listing here.)
Edited 04-25-2002 08:27 PM
13
joe70116
04-25-2002
04:27 PM ET (US)
I guess I should clarify what I mean by the "Disney/Nazi" connection.

What I mean is that Walt Disney has been accused of being in the extreme, a Nazi sympathizer and at the least an "anti-Semite" (or more accurately, an "anti-Jew", since many Arabs are Semites as well, and many Jews are not Semites). While I have never read any hard documentation regarding Mr. Disney, there is enough smoke that I believe that there must be some fire there.

I suspect that anyone with any information would be either too fearful or too-handomely paid off to bring forth any evidence. Besides, isn't attacking Walt Disney like attacking Santa Claus? Who would want to hear it?
12
bonnie burtonPerson was signed in when posted
04-24-2002
08:06 PM ET (US)
hey Joe (or anyone else here too),

do you know of any books that actually seriously document Walt Disney and some of the Nazi connection issues with Disneyland and such?

I'd love to read more about Walt...

-bonnie
11
joe70116
04-24-2002
07:11 PM ET (US)
Well now we're definitely venturing into "I need to read the book" territory. If the author alleges criminal activity on the part of the fast food chain ownership that is serious indeed. I really can't comment on anything like that without reading the book first.

I will say that ordinarily I am very skeptical of any article, book or other form of media that posits anything as being 100% good or 100% evil. In fact, as AnaVoog put it so well.."there is no good or evil"..

By the way, I forgot to mention the Disney/Nazi connection. Surely you watch the Simpsons? Matt Groening makes allusions to the Disney/Nazi connection all the time. It's hilarious. (The Simpsons, I mean. As far as I have read before, the Disney/Nazi connection is real. I still wouldn't keep a child from watching Fantasia though)
10
bonnie burtonPerson was signed in when posted
04-24-2002
04:55 PM ET (US)
speaking of Burger King check this out:

Found on Spikereport.com:

The most exciting new book in America is a poorly written memoir by a man who mopped floors in a Kentucky fast food joint, says Joshuah Bearman.

Writing in the LA Weekly, Bearman says Greg Tate's "11 Years, 9 Months, and 5 Days: Burger Store Episodes and Frustrations," published by online vanity press Xlibris, is an unlikely page-turner: it's an artless, police blotter-like account of the petty indignities of a dead-end janitorial job.  It's also "full of misspellings, typos, grammatical errors and editing gaffes." Nonetheless, says Bearman, "I went through my copy of '11 Years' in a few hours, and told all my friends about the wonderfully, terribly honest piece of writing, and now I'm going public with it because, well, the book just plain deserves it."

Curious?  A sample chapter of "11 Years" is available on the book's Xlibris site. 
http://www1.xlibris.com/bookstore/book_excerpt.asp?bookid=1239

Info on buying the book here:
http://www1.xlibris.com/bookstore/bookdisplay.asp?bookid=1239
Edited 04-24-2002 04:56 PM
9
joshua neff
04-24-2002
03:36 PM ET (US)
Joe--

The problem (& if you read the book, you'll see this) is that a lot of the fast food corporations & the corporations that supply them with food don't use completely legal means to secure their places in the marketplace. So simply choosing not to patronize them is not a completely effective way of combatting them. (Although you're right--don't like fast food? Don't eat there. & I usually don't.) When you're dealing with pricefixing, blackmail, getting handouts from the government (designated for small businesses), & union-busting (like McDonalds shutting down a restaurant that goes union & then opening up a new story down the street, only hiring back the non-union employees), choosing to patronize a "mom & pop" store doesn't do much good. Especially when the number of "mom & pop" restaurants is dwindling, due to the shadowy practices of the fast food corps.

And when I worked at Burger King in college, I was a lot like Enid. ("You want a Whopper without the meat? You know, there's a really good, independently-owned sandwich place just around the corner. You should eat there instead.")
8
bonnie burtonPerson was signed in when posted
04-24-2002
03:16 PM ET (US)
yeah i used to just buy burgers without fries or a drink and the guy behind the counter would think I was a freak.

It kinda reminds me of when Enid works at a movie theater concession stand and has to convince the customer to buy a large drink instead of a medium, in "Ghostworld."

You should read the book, Joe. You might dig it.
7
joe70116
04-24-2002
02:46 PM ET (US)
OK...

For Joshua..if you would "happily pay more for a chalupa if I knew that the people making it were unionized, & therefore getting job security"..then you CAN. Don't buy things at fast food restaurants- eat at fancy restaurants or at least "mom & pop" eateries where the workers are (presumably, anyway) treated much better. It's that easy. If everyone felt this way, fast food franchises would fold and more "mom & pop" eateries would flourish. Sounds like a win-win to me.


For Bonnie..OK, so I exaggerated. :) I remember that when I was at McD's in my halcyon days, hamburgers cost like $.18 and were sold at $.59. The REAL markup is soda. The cup costs more than the Coca-Cola does. If you really want to screw with the bottom line at fast food restaurants, buy the burger and skip the fries and soda. Profit margins would plummet. Not as much as not buying anything, but it would be a shocker.

Money, like energy, is conserved. By giving more money to the workers, someone has to get less money. That would be the stockholders (either in the form of lower ROI due to higher wage costs or less sales due to higher prices), in the case of a publicly held company like most fast food chains. It's sad but true that Ray Kroc's estate cares more for Smith Barney than the "dime-a-dozen" workers on its front lines. I'm not defending it, just stating a fact. Supply and demand. There are lots of teenagers and the like to work at fast food shops, but there are only so many millionaires to support the expansion of the franchise to Macchu Picchu or wherever they plan on building next. Like I told Joshua, the best form of protest is to simply not give them any of your money.

As far as the book goes- I haven't read it. My posts are not directed toward the veracity of the author's comments but rather whether fast food franchises are somehow evil if they try to maximize their profit in a legal manner. In fact, I wonder whether the author and I do not share the same conclusion- don't buy fast food?
6
bonnie burtonPerson was signed in when posted
04-24-2002
02:11 PM ET (US)
well considering those chalupas only cost about 30 cents in ingredients I'm not sure why you're so sure they would cost $10 each just because I think the workers should get a liveable wage....

I have nothing against the police getting raises -- but that's like comparing apples to oranges. Unlike everyday Joes, the police are paid thru taxes not corporate money decisions, and I know they at least get to have unions unlike the large mass of fast food workers.

I have no idea if unions help or not. My mom works for Safeway and the union hasn't helped her at all with on job harassment or crappy wages.

Thanks for the other viewpoint, Joe.
By the way, did you read the book?
Just curious.
5
joshua neff
04-24-2002
11:39 AM ET (US)
Not to get into a HUGE debate, Joe, but to answer your question (yeah, I know it was aimed at Bonnie, but I'm at work & I'm bored, & this is something I feel very strongly about), yes, I would happily pay more for a chalupa if I knew that the people making it were unionized, & therefore getting job security (like health insurance & overtime pay & vacation time) & training beyond the assembly-line, no-real-brain-power-required job training fast food workers get. Just as I'd happily pay more taxes if I knew that the tax money was going to universal health care, respectable (& not just bare-minimum) wages for police & firefighters, good education & literacy programs, & work programs. Sometimes it's true, you get what you pay for.

And you're right, a cure for cancer is WAY more important than a Whopper. So the SBA should stop giving out money to fast food restaurants. More tax dollars should be going towards medical research than bailing out corporations like the fast food & airline companies.

And this is me, now getting off my left-wing horse.
4
joe70116
04-24-2002
11:17 AM ET (US)
Jumping on my "right-wing horse"....

Concerning your observation:

..perhaps if they treated their workers with more respect (instead of someone they can instantly replace) and gave them a wage you could actually pay rent with, they might not have to fear their own employees. Schlosser talks extensively about how the fast food companies are so rabidly against unions that they often close down an entire store and fire all the employees when they suspect union activity...

Would you be so apt to buy those yummy chalupas if they were $9.95 instead of $1.95? Labor costs are a significant (if not the biggest) portion of the fixed cost of producing those oh so yummy junk food treats that we all love. Sure, I think that EVERYONE should make enough money to pay rent, but the sad reality is that supply and demand forces actually work. Fast food workers (and yes, I was one at the towering wage of $1.65 per hour in the early eighties) are comparatively a "dime-a-dozen" compared to say, biomedical researchers. As important as I feel that my next Whopper is, isn't curing cancer just a little more important? Maybe the low wages at fast food wages actually help teenagers decide to do something a little more worthy with their lives, no?

Frankly if ANYONE deserves more money, it's the police- at least in my town, New Orleans. Starting pay at $24k for patrolling one of the most dangerous cities in the country. Now THAT's disrespectful. (No, I'm not a cop- I'm an overpaid computer geek like so many others of us)

As far as unions go, I have yet to see in my lifetime where unions have done any good whatsoever. Since the enactment of labor laws and the foundation of OSHA, I see no further function for unions besides graft and corruption.

OK, back off the horse. Love GRRL radio- you're making a few dollars for a whole bunch of the bands on there, since I've beene buying CD's. I even went to see I Am the World Trade Center and Dressy Bessy (not the same show) at some the local dives when they came through.
3
joshua neff
04-24-2002
11:02 AM ET (US)
Wow! I'm currently reading Fast Food Nation too! I don't really have anything to add--your review pretty much covered it all. Have you gotten to the part about "Hank" the rancher yet? So far that's been the most affecting section I've read. And I knew that Disney was a crypto-Fascist & anti-Communist (who nevertheless took handouts from the US government), but I didn't know that he'd hired von Braun & the other Nazi scientist. Hooray for Operation Paperclip!
Edited 04-24-2002 11:05 AM
2
bonnie burtonPerson was signed in when posted
04-24-2002
05:09 AM ET (US)
high school teachers should have their students read this book just as they do Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle."
1
Deleted by author 04-24-2002 05:09 AM
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