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Charles Tupper  4943
06-14-2004 03:49 PM ET (US)
It appears this nuke idea is catching on:
Why do the Conservatives want to spend a bunch of money beefing up our military? Every dollar spent on the military is a dollar wasted.

In this day and age we need national protection in the form of border patrol, habour patrol, RCMP, CSIS, Coast Guard and Emergency Relief workers/ National Guard.
What is the point of globe trotting? A military should defend the national territory and nothing more.

I'm sure someone will say, "But what if China/ North Korea/ Peru tries to invade us?"

First of all, they won't.

Second of all, we should build 10 long range intercontental heavy duty nukes for just such an occasion.
Xavier Basora  4944
06-14-2004 06:53 PM ET (US)
TM Lutas:
Could you correct the link from your Catholic smartass post? There appears to be some bad HTML coding
Thanks!
xavier
Hank  4945
06-14-2004 09:40 PM ET (US)
Deleted by author 06-14-2004 09:41 PM
PenGun  4946
06-14-2004 11:20 PM ET (US)
TM Lutas asked:

'Should it instead be the petitioners who "repent or resign"?'

 He was refering to the fact that at the "graduation at the University of California at Berkeley's Boalt Hall School of Law about one-quarter of graduates wore red armbands. They were protesting Boalt law professor John Yoo's co-authorship of a memorandum written in 2002, when he served in the U.S. Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel."

 I find Findlaw's Take much more persausive than that of Juan Non-Volokh.

 Indeed it seems Prof Yoo has much to answer for. It seems, at least to me, that the Geneva Convention relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War is quite clear in article 5 that any doubt on status needs a tribunal to resolve. There are definate questions as to the status of many, the Taliban are however clearly POWs.

  PenGun
 Do What Now ???
cesare  4947
06-15-2004 12:01 AM ET (US)
Mr. PenGuin
You seem to forget that the Congressional approval of this GWOT gives POTUS a supreme executive mandate. The USA is not subject to the dominion of foreign princes, or tranzi organizations like the UN the ICC or the ICRC, unless the POTUS explicitly allows it.
In the case of Iraq POTUS has generously allowed those deemed to be combatants to have the benefits of Geneva protection, even though they had no uniforms, carried no identification! Those not so designated are illegal combatants and have no recourse in international law, which is not valide over the US in wartime.
PenGun  4948
06-15-2004 02:38 AM ET (US)
Edited by author 06-15-2004 02:43 AM
cesare

 I was answering TM Lutas and pointing out the protestors had indeed a good point. Prof Yoo had claimed the Geneva Convention relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War did not cover Al Queda or the Taliban. Clearly that was wrong.

 In regard to the AS position on the GWOT and the supreme executive mandate enjoyed by POTUS. Does that mean treaties you _did_ sign are worthless? It would seem so as you did sign Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment which you have clearly violated, a good example is the second section of Article 2 .

  PenGun
 Do What Now ???
TM Lutas  4949
06-15-2004 01:25 PM ET (US)
I'm afraid this is going to be a rather long catch up post. Sorry.

Charles Tupper /m4813 - When you walk down the street with a huge pit bull, the number of people who bother you may drop to zero and the pit bull may never have to even growl at anybody. Does that make the security value of the dog zero?

/m4860 - By act of Congress, the US was committed to Iraqi regime change in 1998 and the policy was never changed. It was all quite out in the open.

/m4868 - It's true that embryonic cells are pluripotent. What is not established is that, for practical treatments, pluripotency is an advantage. It is assumed to be an advantage by embryonic stem cell proponents but that assumes that there is no such thing as excess plasticity, that the tumor problems are easier to lick than others. I say fund what seems to be providing results and don't waste too much money on a morally dubious area of research that seems to specialize in dead ends and dry holes.

This is not to say that there won't be dead ends in adult stem cell therapy. All research has them but you go with what's working and right now, that's adult stem cell research.

Mack /m4815 - The whole mercantilist thing was a semi-neo-dadaist experiment in teasing PenGun. It was demonstrating the absurdity of really holding those opinions as a canadian.

/m4883 - Actually, from what I can tell, the reporting on the Abu Ghraib investigations got as much press as most UCMJ actions do. There's an initial release to the press that there's a problem under investigation, a period of silence while the prosecutors get their ducks in a row, releases regarding arrests, proceedings, and finally results. What happened was that the pictures came out during that period of investigatory silence and all hell broke loose.

A story "breaks" at first report, not months later when sensationalism becomes possible due to pictorial evidence. I'm reminded of an old newspaper story "you provide the picture, I'll provide the war".

PenGun /m4818 - By your count, neither the US nor the USSR much had a space program but Germany had one in two countries. You can make the argument (and some have) but it's generally considered a big stretch.

/m4819 - You're not in Apple's market. You're in the small to mid-sized business market that doesn't care about standardization and vendor lock-in. The amount of money you save in hardware is generally eclipsed by the fees you can extract in vendor lock-in maintenance contracts.

Your criticism of Apple should reflect that it's part of a wider disdain for all name brands. Until I scratched the surface that was not evident at all.

/m4829 - Long before Nicholas Berg, the muslims were circulating footage of beheaded russians and no doubt they still do. Please do not forget, it is the US that is restraining Russia in Chechnya. Putin has no love for violent muslim fanatics.

/m4845 - The emir of Qatar would get a quick visit and Al Jazeera would either become very cooperative or disappear entirely. You're talking about scenarios where we're losing millions of lives. There would be very little tolerance even for delay in cooperation.

/m4849 - Once you lose cities the rules change or governments change. A government that cannot find our enemies won't last if we're losing cities. Capitulation won't be an option either after the first few assassinations (grieving family members taking out Congressmen would be a huge problem).

The position that genocide is impossible runs smack up against a very practical question. In a highly armed nation that has lost millions to attack, what sort of government could survive a non-genocidal response when no other option gets at the bad guys and more millions will die? I submit that no government could survive it and therefore genocide will be on the table. This is why we desperately never want to get to that point.

/m4858 - If there were orders refused, we would have at least one trial by now. So far there are none to my knowledge. Would you care to back up your libel of the US Marines as being prepared to shoot their officers?

/m4896 - You seem grossly uninformed as to what "beat" reporters do. They take all the pap from the PR office and they follow up all the leads to see whether anything is a real story or not. That's their job. It always has been. Some basic FOIA releases should have been demanded for all UCMJ investigations if it wasn't clear what was going on from the text of the original release.

/m4948 - I think you are engaged in a gross flight of fancy that everybody needs to get a tribunal to determine status. Organizations that clearly do not fall under the protection of the conventions are not covered by the conventions. That's the bottom line. The fact that some people have been released because they were picked up accidentally is prima facie evidence that there is some process in place to sort out errors and send those people home.

Kevin Smith /m4825 - There's a great deal that has to be changed in our war fighting methods. It's our first non-westphalian war ever and for Europe, the first the peoples of that continent have had in more than three centuries. We might end up having to change our constitution over it. We should shoehorn as much as possible into the current structure. Revitalizing Letters is one promising avenue but we're nowhere near ready to use them today.

/m4870 - I don't think that any Department is in firm control in Iraq. Whether Chalabi *was* burned is still in doubt, much less answering the question of *who* burned him. Is it all just a deep plot to give him street cred for the January elections? When we're old men, the papers should get declassified.

Roger_D /m4871 - No, I have long ago become disillusioned with mainstream media. But a lot of people are not there yet. I believe we're getting close to a tipping point where it simply will be a mark of foolishness to admit exclusive reliance on "mainstream" sources, much as celebrating New Year's day on April 1 became a foolish custom and thus, April fools.


Hank /m4893 - The ignorance of apostolic christians to variations on their own traditions is almost legendary.

/m4902 - Thank you

RGlasel /m4904 - I'm a great fan of Henri Coanda and his jet which flew in 1910. No jet works today without the use of the Coanda principle but you can't really trace back any jet to HC's 1910 effort. I don't know enough about the Arrow to be sure about the subject but I think it's at least possible that whatever similarities are coincidental.

/m4916 - I think we're operating at different levels of analysis. I agree with what you say about certain koranic interpretations but underneath it all, the koranic interpretations matter a damn because the Koran is supposedly the only monotheistic holy book without a history. It is this point, that the Koran *hasn't* been agreed to by scholars but is the unchanged Word of God, that comprises an awful lot of Islam's appeal, especially the rigid variants that the jihadists subscribe to.

Bill S /m4922 - Watching Al Jazeera and surfing the net may get them angrier and angrier but this just provides an impulse to action. The strictly interpreted, "unchanging" Koran is what provides the direction. A Koran that has a history, even a minor one, would provide entire new vistas for action and ways to get out of some of the traps that the islamic world now finds itself in.
Charles Tupper  4950
06-15-2004 02:57 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 06-15-2004 02:59 PM
TM Lutas - The pitbull analogy is a logical fallacy - post hoc ergo propter hoc. It assumes the fact that if you walk down the street without the dog you will be attacked. It does not necessarily follow. The US arms Canada not because they are a bunch of nice guys and do not want Canadians to get hurt but because it aids the defence of America. The US arms Canada with weapons its own people admit are useless, insists they carry nuclear warheads, tell the world that they have done so, assists the overthrow of a Canadian government that resists the overtures and tell us how magnanimous they are for acting in our defence.

The security value of you dog is not only zero Mr. Lutas but actually walking with the dog increases the chances you will be attacked.

Re: Stem cells - If you base research funding on what has proven most effective, why fund stem cell research at all? Simply focus on pharmacology.
cesare  4951
06-16-2004 12:44 AM ET (US)
Penguin
America was conceived in liberty, so that Americans would never be the subjects of foreign powers. Congress can ratify any treaties it wants, to mollify foreign tyrants, but they are not binding on POTUS in a time of war.
Period.
Not that Dave  4952
06-16-2004 01:20 AM ET (US)
special for Lutas
Article 5 of the Third Geneva Convention
The present Convention shall apply to the persons referred to in Article 4 from the time they fall into the power of the enemy and until their final release and repatriation.

Should any doubt arise as to whether persons, having committed a belligerent act and having fallen into the hands of the enemy, belong to any of the categories enumerated in Article 4, such persons shall enjoy the protection of the present Convention until such time as their status has been determined by a competent tribunal.

Of course you don't really need a tribunal. Just get a blogger. They know everything, without having to refer to the facts. Maybe we can get that added to the next Convention.
PenGun  4953
06-16-2004 03:27 AM ET (US)
TM Lutas said:

"Your criticism of Apple should reflect that it's part of a wider disdain for all name brands. Until I scratched the surface that was not evident at all."

 I like Apple, since Steve Jobs returned much that makes sense has occured. I just have a problem with paying someone twice what the hardware is worth to put it together for me.

 Your ChicagoBoyz link is broken. Good thing I checked anyway, I would not have wanted to miss Peggy Noonan on Margret Thatcher and Regan's funeral ;).

  PenGun
 Do What Now ???
Kevin Smith  4954
06-16-2004 09:26 AM ET (US)
Edited by author 06-16-2004 09:30 AM
How is it that Canada is unthreatened so that it needs no defense? What has brought you to this state? (Indeed, what has brought the world -- no, human nature -- to this unusual state?) What makes you think it will continue? What is the guarantor of peace? Square your answers to these with your desire for nukes. If you tell me that nukes will guarantee your peace, tell me why they alone will do this.
Mark Childerson  4955
06-16-2004 12:14 PM ET (US)
cesare & PenGun

I am not an American, but I thought that treaties, once ratified by the Senate, are justiciable by the US Supreme Court. (Article III, Sec. 2). An example would be the recent decision allowing Mexican trucks to come into the US under Nafta. If this is so, then the President would be constitutionally bound by treaties.

Perhaps some of the Americans on this list can help out with discussion of this issue.
Charles Tupper  4956
06-16-2004 03:15 PM ET (US)
Canada has a $13 billion defence budget. The question is why do the Yanks want Canada to spend more and why should Canada listen?
Cellucci said when he was appointed ambassador in the spring of 2001 his only marching orders from Secretary of State Colin Powell were to work on increasing Canada's defence budget. "The only specific instruction he gave me - the former chief of staff of the United States armed forces - he said you have to talk to the Canadians about increasing their military spending."


Why does the US, NK, India, Pakistan, Russia and Israel have nukes?
Kevin Smith  4957
06-16-2004 04:12 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 06-16-2004 04:16 PM
Mark,

Treaties are law of the land; however, they do not trump the Constitution. If certain provisions of a treaty violated the Constitution, such provisions (at least)would be illegal.

The Supreme Court is the ultimate arbiter of the law of the United States, including treaties. Therefore, no treaty to which the United States is a party can operate to supercede its jurisdiction (this is one of the problems with the ICC). And do not forget: a country may withdraw from a treaty.
Kevin Smith  4958
06-16-2004 04:17 PM ET (US)
Charles,

Your post no. 4956 is in response to ...?
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