Welcome to Week Two!

  The theme of names and naming is a very predominant one in both The Bean Trees and Beloved ( as well as through most of Toni Morrison’s novels, Song of Solomon, etc). I found it interesting to see the symbolism and association with names. Also, a theme connected to that of naming itself was that of religion connected to it. In both books, I found that there were subtle underlying connections to religions and/or religious figures themselves. I’m finding that whereas both novels contain similar themes they differ greatly. Personally I find that Beloved is a bit difficult to understand. I have been told that once you get farther into the book begins to make sense. It is taking me a really long time to even get through the beginning of this novel however because I am constantly having to reread things I have just read. It seems as if whenever I think that I understand what is going on I am struck with the realization that no, no I don’t, I just thought that I did. Honestly at times I find this to be rather irritating, and yet at the same time is helps to keep my interest in the book and motivates me to move forward and keep reading in order to grasp what it is that the author is wanting to share. I have read Song of Solomon, which I found to be a very good book, but I am really not sure, at least not yet, whether or not I care much for this novel. I think that there is a lot more to Beloved to be offered that will be missed due to the time constraints placed upon us. I personally feel that literature such as Beloved should be studied with more time allotted so as to better understand and appreciate to the fullest all it has to offer.

The book Beloved gives us a whole new prospective of family. It is unlike the families in the Bean Trees or any other family situation we have discussed thus far. These families are in subhuman situations and rarely can last because of their environment. Sometimes, women in the story are forced to physically form a new family for the profit of the plantation owner, and in some cases, women even have to nurse children that are not theirs. Also, parts of families are sold to different plantations, while others are not. I was surprised that they even tried to form “normal” families because of the conditions they faced. I cannot even fathom the situation that Sethe had to be in to do what she did. I honestly believe she did it out of love and care for her kids, even though it may seem like it was done during a period of insanity.

I haven't started reading Beloved yet so I will continue on with the Bean Trees. I read this book when I was in 10th grade and found it very appealing. I loved it more then but I think that is because I have read more of Barbara Kingsolver's books since then. Her style of writing is incridible and amazing. The sequal to the Bean Trees is Pigs In Heaven. I absolulty adored this book as much as The BeAn Trees. if anyone loves her, read this book!!! She is an amazing author.

Family is important to the characters in Beloved in a different way than in the normal view of family. I have noticed that blood relatives aren't as important as links to people by other associations. For example, Sethe's boys have run away from their own mother but her "mother-in-law" has stayed with her even though they are really not related. Also Denver's adoration for Beloved even though she isn't related to her either. Family ties by blood aren't what is important, perhaps because the former slaves were acustomed to losing their family members, it is what you make a family in this book that allows you to be satisfied with what you have.

"Sethe was flattered by Beloved's open, quiet devotion. The same adoration from her daughter (had it been forthcoming) would have annoyed her; made her chill at the thought of having raised a ridiculously dependent child." That's the second paragraph on page 57, and it really made me stop and think. It just seems odd. I mean, I know times are tough, and you have to be tough with them, but to say that Denver's adoration would have "annoyed" her seems a bit odd to me. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?

While talking about American families, it is interesting to notice things like dominance, more specifically, patriarchy or matriarchy. In the sit-coms we've been watching and discussing in class, "Family Ties," "The Cosby Show," etc..it is pretty clear that "the man of the house" is really that, the man of the house. I'm not saying that the women of these t.v. shows were depicted as subordinate, I just always got the impression that what the male said, went...It's interesting to see then in "The Bean Trees" and "Beloved" that the women of the families presented are the ones who hold the family together, theirs is the role of strength, and the male characters have little or no influence on this family bond...It would be interesting to imagine how "The Bean Trees" and "Beloved" would have played out if men were the central characters.

After yesterday's discussion on The Bean Trees, I got to thinking about the make shift family Taylor had created for herself, and about her relationship with her biological mother. In the beginning of the book we see how much Taylor loves her and how she reacts when she finds out her mother is getting married. However, once Taylor gets her life staightened out in Arizona, I feel like we don't get enough information about her continuing relatioship with her mother. as if she has replaced her with Mattie and friends.

A dominant theme that jumped out at me from Beloved is the idea of sacrifice. I feel that sacrifice is another characteristic of the American Family. From slavery times, through the Great Depression and into modern day, family members have shown how much they love and care for each other through self-sacrifice. Sethe sacrificed much to bring her children into freedom. Although she did lose loved ones along the way, she never gave up determination. Today, parents often go without so that their children can have the best possible, and hopefully children notice and appreciate this.

The one main thing that I enjoy about Beloved is that we learn about the legacy of slavery from Sethe's, Paul D's, Stamp Paid's, and Baby Suggs's point of view rather than that another character. We the reader begin to bond with this family and begin to understand the effects slavery has on them. Sethe gave up everything for her family because she wanted them to know what life was like when they were free.

The situation in which these individuals are obligated to face due to their race is simply terrible. This is the first piece of literature that I've read that has put me in a pespective such as Sethe's or the other characters. This brings a entirely unique family situation to the table that is very much in a category of its own. Beloved has turned out to be a fairly difficult read in regards to character development, but the plot is truly disturbing. I've found it somewhat difficult to translate some of Sethe's exaggerations from reality (e.g. the tree on her back). For the most part I feel that this book is a very interesting look into the life of a slave.

I'm about half way through Beloved right now. It's nice to read a book that gives such a different perspective on family as opposed to The Bean Trees. It's interesting how the flashbacks in Beloved flow with the novel and there is no warning when they will appear. I know that the book has supernatural characteristics and I find it interesting how these characteristics intertwine with the theme of family throughtout the book. Also the characters are very mysterious and it's great how they are slowly revealed throughtout the novel as though they have layers like an onion that are being pealed off one at a time, and through revealing a little about one character we often learn about another. For instance, Paul D. is talking about his life on Sweet Home and Sethe obviously was there too and therefore was a part of his life.

The Bean Tree's title had a big role in the book. Native Americans were said to think that gods live in trees, and Turtle related everyone with a plant or a tree of some sort. I also think that the title Beloved is important in this novel also, and that is what, i think, we will find out as we finish reading the novel.

While reading Beloved I noticed many things about the family that may have not been that noticable in The Bean Trees. Beloved seems to show how competition can and does exist in a family and within its members. I first noticed this when Denver would refer to the ghost as her sister, rather than a ghost she never knew. Another instance is when Paul D asked Sethe for his exceptance as a family member; Paul D asked her to not give all her love and affection to Denver, but to share it with him. I found those to be only a few examples of the competition that exists in families. Beloved reveals this family situation well through its characters and events.

  As we read we will be able to see a different family structure in the book Beloved than the family structure we saw in The Bean Trees. The Bean Trees family structures seemed to be in pairs with ties among all the pairs. Beloved however is a bigger family with more members even though some are not blood related. I believe that this book will be a great example of what a family can be besides the so called "Typical American family"..

Well, after all of the messages I read and our discussion this week on The Bean Trees, I think that I have a little bit of a different view on it. I did not really like the book. I did not hate it or anything, but I can think of a ton of things I like better. I think one of the reasons I felt this way is because even though some people might say the story is "original," I felt like I knew exactly was going to happen, like I was one chapter ahead the whole time. I also felt like the characters were left a little undeveloped and that frustrated me. I don't expect an author to tell you everything, but I also don't like it when he/she leaves everything up to my imagination. I guess I just didn't feel like I got to know the chracters very well, which made it a little challenging to really think about their roles to eachother as "family" like we discussed in class.

As I am reading Beloved, I am soooo confused. I get so confused on when the booking is referring to. But I am very intrigued at the relationship between the characters in Beloved. I also agree about how the "family unit" is more diverse in the sense that it is bigger and doesn't neccessarily include strictly blood relatives. I also noticed how the slaves, when on plantations develope as a "family". I especially noticed this Sethe is at Sweet Home and she marries Halle. And after Halle goes mad, and Sethe escapes with the children, Paul D returns to Sethe. I think that shows that they were closer than just "co-workers" expecially since Schoolteacher had put them through so much, but they were together which I believe always makes people grow closer. So far, I am enjoying the book, however I have found it to be a difficult read. I have to sit and think and process the information before I fully understand what is going on.

The Beloved seems to be a powerful book, but the fact is that I think the author needed a better sense of how they were going to write it. Each paragraph seems at times to want to accomplish too much, by dwelling into the past while still describing the present.

As for the Bean trees, our discussion in class was very interesting, but it didn't do much to change my opinion of the book. I thought the book was a slightly tedious read, though I was very glad afterwards that I had read it. Go figure.

I am more than halfway done with Beloved, and I have found myself picking up new things than in the Bean Trees. Although this book is at times hard to follow, I have enjoyed reading it. I think that it is a completely different look at families than Bean Trees. For instance, the importance of other generations, like Baby Suggs, is a big difference. In the Bean Trees, there was no other generations that had as great as an impact as Baby Suggs did. Also, another part of the novel that is intriguing is the way that Beloved quickly became a part of the family, as well as Paul D. They both stopped by, and ended up staying, unexpectedly. They both contribute to this family, like a blood relative would have. This is a part that was similar to the Beah Trees. One part that I found very interesting so far was the fact that Halle bought his mother freedom. THis part just made me realize his devotion, love and caring for his mother.

Although this book is hard to follow and confusing at times, I have enjoyed reading Beloved, because of the flashbacks, interesting plot and compassion in the book.

Beloved has to be one of the most abstract fictions I've ever read. It was really hard to follow until I rented the movie. Now I understand who the characters are and what exactly these flash backs mean. Even though the book has parts that aren't in the movie it does a fair job of following exactly what the book describes. I did not like the book due to the way that Morrison wrote. Her style is really hard to follow but then again if a writer is going to write about a baby coming back from the dead, he or she would have to be pretty creative. And Morrison did that really well by forming each of these characters with all of their pasts. If the book was written differently I think that I would have enjoyed this piece even more.

I feel that Bean Trees was a good book however, I do not think that as much time needed to be devoted analyzing it as was spent. The book is relatively straight forward and I did not see much that one really had to ponder in order to understand it fully. Beloved, on the other hand, I feel, is sooo good. I have read Song of Solomon which is also by Morrison, and I think that she is a genius. The way that she incoorporates the use of the color red and rose pedals in her novels really interests me. In Song of Solomon the use of Rose pedals and red was very significant and I have found the same thing in Beloved. Also, the fact that after I have put the book down, I am still thinking and wanting to know more about the story. In a way Beloved is very mysterious.

   Going from Kingsolver to Morrison is a strange transition. Morrison is so much more detailed and eratic in her writing than Kingsolver. Kingsolver is much more simplistic and to a certain extent a better communicator in her book than Morrison, but does not possess the same literary talents as Morrison as far as description and the ability to create a dramatic story are concerned.
   On an unrelated note, I would like to say that I thought "The Bean Trees" was an interesting book, and an easy "read", but it does not get the job done when it attempts to tackle political issues such as immigration. It tries to make the statement that the United States should be more accepting of immigrants bc of the poem written on the statue of liberty, and presents us with unrealistic and undetailed instances of Estevan and Esperanza's oppression(What type of things was the teacher's union working to change? Why were they from Guatemala?). On a positive note, I like the statement that it makes about family, saying that you don't have to be blood relatives to be a member of a family. I've heard the story of "how they eat in heaven" before, which makes a great statement about the nature of the good and bad people. However, the use of this fable takes away from Kingsolver's writing bc she uses a this fable, which is not her own original story, to make a statement about how people ought to live. Overall, the Bean Trees made a good statement about family but was a simple story and fell short trying to handle the secondary issues that it attmepts to deal with, making it an average to below average book.

I agree with the statement made earlier about not having to analyze Bean Trees as much. I thought it was an easy read and I enjoyed it a lot. I did not see a whole lot of deep symbolism. I have not gotten through much of Beloved, but already I can see there is going to be much deeper character development. The character that strikes me the most is Baby Suggs. She is dead and she is already playing one of the biggest roles in the book.

"Beloved" is my first exposure to the work of Toni Morrison, and I am not really sure how I feel about her yet. The closest analogy I can draw is that "Beloved" reminds me of Faulkner's "The Sound and the Fury," in that it isn't sequential, the characters are confusing, and half the time I'm not sure what is real and what isn't. I am just frustrated with the fact that I cannot just read the book and draw my own conclusions, I have to rely on the words of others, the movie, and the Internet to make sense of it all. Why is it that many "great" books are like this? It seems that the more difficult a book is to read and comprehend, the greater it is praised among literary critics.

On a different note, I liked "The Bean Trees" but I agree with Ginger's statement that there really wasn't much to analyze. I felt it was a fairly straightforward book. I really was at a loss in class discussion for something to talk about regarding it. I also agree with Mark's statement that the book fell short of trying to handle the secondary issues it dealt with. Teenage pregnancy, immigration, single parenthood, and poverty were all issues that could have been addressed more directly. Instead I feel Kingsolver took the easy route with her ending, choosing the "love makes a family" cliche instead of dealing with the other issues.

Edited by author 04-05-2002 11:15 PM
The Bean Trees was awesome! I took this class because I do not like to read and I thought that it would help me enjoy it more. So far so good. Beloved is a very good book, but once you think that you understand what is going on in the story, she throws something else at you. My first real understanding came when Beloved showed up. The story is getting better. I am finding it hard to put it down. Sometimes I walk away feeling more stupid after I read it because of the language, but then again to really be able to understand what they are saying and what they are meaning, only means that you have to be somewhat intelligent. The whole story is a real eye opener because for a woman to be so independent in that time was outrageous. But also gives us (women)stength to know it is okay to be independent. There are so many relationships in this book you almost have to map it all out!

ok....it's 11:52pm and i barely made it!!! (i'm packing my entire life up and moving this week, so i've been a bit crazy...) i'm quite enjoying "beloved", although i certainly haven't read as much as i'd like to by now. i'm hoping to rent the movie this weekend so that i might gain a wee bit o' insight into the lives of morrison's many characters. it IS a bit confusing and i find myself only reading small chunks at any one time--although i anticipate really enjoying it the further i go. i would like to add that i didn't post a message last week (due to technical difficulties...)but i REALLY enjoyed rereading "the bean
trees". i am a huge kingsolver fan and was pleased that this book was included in our required reading. i am also really pleased with the approach that christina has taken with this class----who would have thought to include such a diverse group of writings with the common theme of "family" as the uniting factor? you, that's who! i love it.....and will be very happy when i'm done moving and i can get back to life as "normal". outta time.....more later.

I agree with Kevin Porter's message about not hearing about the correspondence between Taylor and her mother towards the second part of the book. During her trip out to Tucson we were aware of post cards and telephone calls to/with her mother, but towards the end we lose contact with her mother. I wish they would have shown Taylor communicating with her mother more. I know she was very close with her and I find it very hard to believe she didn't talk to her regularly. Like Rebecca Stephens, I was not overly thrilled with the Bean Trees. There were many good attributes to the story, however, I was not as captivated as I think most students were. I am very excited to read some of the other books though, particulary We Were the Mulvaneys and Bastard out of Carolina. Hope everyone has an enjoyable weekend, see you all in class Monday! :)