Since I am coming in late to the discussion, I had the opportunity to read what everyone else had to say, which was nice. I noticed that a lot of the posts discussed how there really is no typical or normal American family. I agree with what Leah said about Family Ties being presenting what a fallacy the typical American Family is. I think it is good that the notion of the nuclear family as ideal continues to lose popularity, while at the same time acceptance for "non-traditional" families is increasing. This just goes to show that society is finally realizing that the nuclear family is actually the minority, while "non-traditional families" are really today's norm.

I think that Family Ties is a good show to present what a falacy the typical American family is. The Keatons are this perfect family, with parents who work, and manage to be home each night for dinner, with four kids who are all stereotyped one way or the other. Since most families aren't like this, I think people like to watch it because for half an hour they can be a part of this four star American family. That's why it is a fictional television show and not real life. In the 80s, once a week, families got to sit down and imagine that they were part of this family that loved and cared for one another, and solved all their problems in a half hour episode. I think they portray the American dream.

I found no comparison to Family Ties and The Bean Trees, even though we were not supposed to, I tried to find some sort of alikeness.
 The Bean Trees is a very interesting book so far. Compared to the books that I read in High school. From the first sentence I was hooked. I loe the name Turtle for the little girl. The story really hit close to home being based first in Kentucky. I can relate to Missy (Taylor) in the story and her need to get out of her small town, to experience life. Also to avoid the usual idea that all the girls will get pregnant and drop out of high school. IT sonds all too much like my high school sadly.

  The Bean Trees is an appropriate book for the study of the American family because it shows the reader how the differences in the ways that people are brought up shapes their individual consciousness. For example, Louann is from a "down-home" traditional southern family, and Taylor is grew up in what is often discribed as a broken home(father leaving the wife and child). Taylor, of course, is the stereotypical character of someone who grew up in a broken home. She is strong-willed, and like her mother said, "barefoot and pregnant ain't her style." She is sassy, adventurous and a hard worker who is not afraid to get a job and provide for herself and her child. LouAnn, being from the traditional southern family, was quick to settle down(although she did go to Arizona) and get married. She was a traditional stay-at-home, nurturing mother. The Bean Trees does a great job of illustrating the way a person's family up-bringing affects their personality.

    As far as Family Ties goes, it is a great example of the mid-late 80's conception of the perfect family. The parents are very much still in love, are successful, and have several interesting children, who are all successful in their own ways. In class on Thursday, the idea that the show had excessive patriachical influence came to the floor. I cannot help but disagree with the fact that Family Ties was a show that degraded women in any way. In the context of the times, this show, like the Cosby show was ahead of its time in that the mother was a successful career woman. If I remember correctly, mainstream society was never comfortable with the idea of the working, career driven mother(arguement can be made that it still is not)until the late 1990's. So in this sense, I do not believe that Family Ties was too male dominant(or enter whatever word we used in class). One can argue back that maybe I am right with Alise, but the show still has issues with patriarchy concerning Mallory(Jennifer is not a strong argument). Since Mallory is a campy, over-the-top example of a woman's stereotypical love of shopping, one can say that this is a reflection of chovinism in the show. I would offer the point that in many tv sitcoms, the childrens personalities are exaggerated for comic effect and entertainment value. Alex Keaton is portrayed as ridiculously republican person just because he is young and interested in politics. Other examples of campy character traits in sitcom children are Carlton Bank's lack of common sense and extreme dorkiness, Beaver Cleavers politeness, the list goes on. Family Ties is a campy family show that seems to project the ideal of the perfect 80's family, or at least what some people think is the perfect 80's family.

      In response to Molly Hopkins, I agree that television shows of the past have given us ideas as to what the perfect family should be, but I fail to see any current shows relaying a similar message. So many people are quick to blame or point the finger at television as either giving the populace unrealistic ideals or as corrupting the populace. I think that, honestly, it is plain to see that television does not influence the populace, but instead it is just the oppisite which is true. It is the majority of the populace which influences telelvision. I mean compare a television show of any particular era to the social values of that same era. In the Dick Van Dyke show, the characters portrayed a family that would have been an ideal one for the time. And look at television shows today, shows such as Friends and Will & Grace often come under fire from fundamentalists as corrupting our society, these shows are continuously blamed for "making homosexuality acceptable" and "corrupting our children's values" and so forth. But it is obvoius that in reality, these shows are a result of a greater tolerance for diversty and a more relaxed attitude towards issues that would have been considered obscene only a short while ago. I am tired of people on both sides of the issue, claiming that television is filling America full of false ideas and corrupting our morals. Television gave us false ideals because we wanted those ideals, and now that society has become more comfortabe with sensitive issues, such as sexuality, and our tolerance for obscene humor has expanded (take South Park for example) television has changed, in response to what we want. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with this; I love the Dick Van Dyke show; I love Will & Grace; and South Park is only the funniest show in the world. I'm just saying that these programs are a result of what society dicates is realistic, not some conspiracy of telelvision producers out to get us.

Matt H, don't feel alone. I'm right there with you. My parents also have been married for over 20 years. They have four kids. We live in the country, have a big yard, a pond in back, and even a golden retriever. My dad is the superintendent at the local school and my mom is currently a middle-school teacher. When we were growing up, she stayed home with us until we were in school and went back to work. We live in a very small town. We don't have a gas station or a stop light. We only have one church. In high school, I graduated with forty-two students (that's considered a big class at my school) and not one student's parents were divorced. We live in the middle of no where and I swear we live abnormal lives. Abnormal because we are so normal. Abnormal because no one would believe that the biggest heartbreak our town has is losing a basketball game. Now, each person's definition of normal is obviously very different, I understand that, but I think we appear (and maybe that's the key word) extremely normal (which I think equals abnormal). Anyhow, I think because of maybe my somewhat "sheltered" existence, some things may be difficult for me to understand. But, let's hope not! :)
Welp, I hope everyone has a wonderful weekend, see you all in class Monday!

I am currently half-way through the novel, and I have found it very interesting so far. The way family is portrayed in this book is incredibly unique, not common at all.

One part that I found interesting is the way that they established a family in their home. Louann, Taylor, Turtle and Dwayne Ray quickly became a family. Louann took on the typical housewife role, while Taylor brought in the money, even though it was just for her and Turtle. Louann cooked, and took care of the children while Taylor was away. The thing that I found most intersting about this was the fact that Taylor didn't like this arrangement right off the bat. She didn't like the fact that Louann was taking care of everything, I think she felt as though she wasn't contributing at all. However, Louann wanted to be like this, to take care, and it shows in her motherly, nurturing character.

I think Louann has a very intersting character profile, how she is always depicted as the type who is watching out, being over protective of children. She always is thinking about what could happen, like with the chopsticks, etc. She also tells Taylor what to do with Turtle, how to care for and how to help her.

Taylor is an opposite to her in many ways. She learns the ways of caring for Turtle through Louann. Louann's nurturing character rubs off on Taylor, as she shows her that she must read to, entertain, care for and love Turtle.

Although I am not done with this novel, I find it very interesting, in how the family is portrayed. Louann, Taylor, Turtle and Dwayne have the basic fundamentals that our families have today. I am looking forward to finding out what happens next.

Oh yea, props to The Bean Trees.

Sorry I've been MIA on this message board up until now, but the whole idea of it makes me nervous. I don't know if I've had an original thought my entire life. Well concerning the "normal" family, that conversation is pointless as others have stated. That is all subjective, so we shouldn't really try to narrow anything down to an absolute.

I think it's difficult for most sitcoms to completely develope characters with more depth because they have viewers who expect certain things from the characters they have come to know and love. For that reason, it's almost impossible for families on television to live up to what we'd expect from a family. I mean, isn't that why we watch these shows? They entertain us; I don't stay up nights watching Rosanne, Family Ties, or any other sitcom feeling nastalgic about when I lived at home with my family. We watch them because they make us laugh. That's not to say we don't pick up certain perceptions concerning "a family" from watching, but I only think it's a big deal if you make it one. Which I guess I just did? OH well, sorry...

The Bean Trees was a very quick read. I really enjoyed the book and all of the characters. I read most of the other postings and don't really know how to respond to any of them. Everyone has their own opinions on every type of family but this book shows that a family doesn't have to be the typical one with a mother and father with 1.5 children. A family can be anyone that loves each other unconditionally.

In response to Tom H, your family is normal in my eyes. A normal family is a functional one. A good example of this is the show we watched in class, Family Ties. Although the show portrays a few stereotypes that we discussed in class and whatnot, the family is functional. In the day and age we live in today, functional families are becoming less. One explination of this is the increase of broken families in the United States. Factors such as divorce and alcoholism can make a family disfunctional. Despite race, religion, size, or social class, a normal family is a functional family.

  I think it's odd that we all keep entioning te "ideal" family, when such a thing doesn't even exitst... i know that in class we've said that different things work for different people... but the truth is that nothing is truely *ideal.* No matter what the situation is there will always be some kind of conflict... nothing it perfect... call me a "glass is half empty" kind of a girl, but thats just the way i see it. I mean, some people might say that my family is "ideal," because my parents have been married for almost 25 years (they're anniversary is in july) and they have been able to send both of my brothers and i to college and we all get along... but it isn't perfect. my mom had to go to work to help send us to college, but all that really did was give the government an excuse to give us less aid... my parents ARE still together, but that doesn't mean that they don't get angry with eachother... I guess my point is that things may look perfect, but they never are... Its like the mom says in "American Beauty" "To be successful one must project an image of success."

As far as "The Bean Trees" goes i haven't gotten past chapter two yet, but so far i'm enjoying it. Over the summer i read "The Poisonwood Bible" by Kingsolver and i loved it... it does an excellent job of portraying a family unit that is FAR from perfect... Ok, well... enough from me for now!

First of all, I want to say how much I am enjoying The Bean Trees. One of my good friends is a Kingsolver fan, and I'm glad I finally get to read her work. As far as the ideal of the "American Family", I don't think there should be a set criteria for that. I am in a family of just my mom and myself, and I consider us in an ideal situation. Most kids I know that live in single-parent homes have a much better relationship with his/her parent than those who live with both. I still think that shows like Family Ties are entertaining, but I would like to see more single family shows that are not completely disfunctional. One of my all time favorite shows is The Cosby Show. There wasn't much conflict, but it was never boring either. I wish we would watch and analyze an episode of Rosanne. I think that this show has been the closest thing to depicting a real family. Something I don't understand is that many people have a problem with the increasing divorce rate. Obviously, the couple wasn't happy in the marriage, so why stay in it and be miserable? If divorce was as acceptable in the 1950s perhaps so many housewives wouldn't have been addicted to drugs. I think that more people are pursuing their happiness today, and if being a single parent means a happier family life then that's how it should be.

I found it interesting in the Family Ties episode when Steven was trying to comfort Alese in the bedroom about her building being knocked down. He used some line about how she still had her family and that they would be with her no matter what. Although this was an attempt to console her, I did not see this as relevant at all. Family support is important, but it cannot fill all voids in an independent person's life. People have to feel whole as a person and be satisfied with their actions to be happy.

The American family does exist, but it is extremely rare. That is why shows such as "Family Ties" had great success because, we can not all assocaite with it so we look to the tv family for its rarity. The total and pure American family can only exist the fanatsy worls of television. Their appeal to the audience is high because we want to grow up in that perfect family, but we cant so therefor we just grow up watching them on tv.

One has to wonder why more shows like Family Ties are no longer widley succesiful. I think the reason for this is found within the fact that most families can no longer relate to this overly-ideal family setting any more. Most families are such that both parents have to work, and neither of them have as much time as they would like to spend time with the children. Consequently, the children feel overlooked or abandoned and therefore, problems develop within the household that are often overlooked until it is too late.

Also, I feel that with the high rate of divorces going on in America, the only way the American audience is going to be able to relate to any sort of sitcom based on a central family is if the mother and father are divorced or fight a lot and the children have some sort of mental anguish as a result.

The show "Fraisier" for instance, has Fraisier and his wife divorced for some time, since the begining of the show. One of the reasons for this is probably the fact that the audience can relate to this idea better than they could with a family that is totally functional.

The show "Married With Children" on the other hand, can probably attribute its success with the fact that it displayed a disfunctional family, even though the wife and husband do stay together and do show examples where they are still truely in love, even though they fight all the time.

As for my own family, we have never had any real problems. I get along with my brother very well, and my mother and father have remained happily married for over 20 years. I mean, we have had plenty of fights, we still do, but that happens in every family.