ok...so it's late and won't count, but i really wanted to respond to christina's post. not only did i grow up with/near women and children who were often the victims of abuse, i too am a sexual assault survivor. on top of that
my mother was in a VERY abusive relationship with my stepfather for almost a dozen years. being a child and witnessing the abuse my mother went through was .....well, there almost aren't any words. i felt so very powerless to stop it---to stand up to him--to take her away from it.

several years ago i was the shelter program director at My Sister's Place here in athens. the repercussions of abuse (mental, physical, sexual) are horrific and truly unbelievable, especially in regard to children! i make no judgements about women who choose to stay and/or return to their abusers. i do believe it's my business and have stepped into more than one altercation when i thought a woman was in danger. it's tough stuff though---we are trained to look away and not to get involved. it is this same fear and apathy that keeps victims locked in that terrible cycle of violence.

with all of this in mind, i must tell you that i was deeply touched and affected by "bastard out of carolina". i identified not only with the southern family theme (my roots are in virginia and north carolina) but also with bone's character. strong (stronger than she could ever realize i think!!) and a survivor, her character really moved me. i saw my mother in annie--a woman so in love, yet so afraid. so, i too am thinking of writing my paper about "bastard". at least tying it into what i'm thinking about... thanks for being so candid with us and trusting us with your history christina. it is encouraging and lends a real voice to abuse----seriously, thanks.

At first I wasn't too excited about reading Bastard Out of Carolina, it started off pretty dry, but by the end of the book I was pretty impressed. I think the one thing I found most unique about the book was the almost brutal honesty in it. I was shocked when I read about Bone's reaction to her abuse. I think Dorothy Allison did a good job in presenting truthful subject matter that many other authors would have been embarassed to write about. Although I found the book disturbing, I found it honest, and so the author was very good at staying true to her craft and telling the story like it really is.

I know I'm writing this very late but I figured I may as well put something up. I decided to write about "Bastard Out of Carolina" for my paper because it was my favorite out of all the books we read. I've heard that the author is a very interesting and unique woman and that she has an autobiography out and often talks about how her life as a child compares to Bone's. I think it would be interesting to compare the life of Bone and the author's life and reallys see how similar the two are. I want to know how much of "Bastard..." is actual fact, actual events that the author experienced and put in her book.

Bastard Out Of Carolina is a sad story. It is incorrect to blame any one person or thing for the abused that Bone suffered. Child abuse, verbal, physical, or sexuall is a common problem found throught families. In the case of Bone, as of many others, it is a cycle which is hard to break. Many times the mother, if there is one, along with the child are helpless against a seeming overpowerful male figure. It is the responsiblilty of any knowing adult, family or not, to see that the abuse ends.

In Bone's case, it was the respnosibilty of Anney to see that the abuse ended. Bone was not old enough to comprehend the severity of her abuse. She was the only adult who knew Bone was being abused. That fact that she had experience heartache in her prior marriage is not an acceptable excuse for allowing her daugheter to suffer.

It is easy to blame the abuser, Glenn in this situation. That i agree with. He should be punished severly. However he is not the only one at fault. The fact that abuse took place for so long is just as much Anney's fault as Glenn's. This is not a sweeping generalization. Every case of abuse is different, and the child is always the victim.

Bastard Out of Carolina was a book that I found disturbing and made me hate (in general) men. I did not understand why somone could do this to a child and live with themselves. Everyday in the world every minute there are children being abused. It bothers me to think that even though you hear about it, it really happens. Abuse is very apparent in relationships today, and most of us do not even realize it. It may not be physical, but there is still damage done. Verbal abuse is serious. I am just speechless about this book. I can't write about it.

Hmmm.. what can I say about "Bastard out of Carolina"... It was very interesting to say the least. What else? Well, to be honest I found this book to be pretty disturbing. I coudn't really get involved in the story of characters. It was like reading about something that you have no insight into and therefor cannot relate to. The part where they eat saltine crackers with katchep was really horrible. This book was yet another depressing one. I did not mind the style of the novel, but the story left me cold.

Bastard OUt of Carolina was my favorite book of the quarter. I fell in love with Bone and her family. It's so disturbing to read about molestation and rape and especailly coming from a 9 year old girl. someone said in class that they liked how it wasn't all about rape and I didn't even notice that when I was reading it, but when it was mentioned, I loved that too. It makes it more realistic and believable. I thought the book was excellent and I've recomended it to all my friends.

I am always hesitant to add my posts to this space, because I feel that it is a teacher-free space and you are on your own to say whatever you like. However, I feel that my imput at this time might be warranted and might serve this discussion well.

I was abused verbally, physically, and sexually as a child. My mother did absolutely nothing to help me. In fact, my step-father would take me into another room while she played board games with my aunt in the kitchen. They could both hear me screaming but did nothing at all to make him stop what he was doing. I never got over my mom's inaction. I hated her for letting him hurt me. He never hit my mother or my brother.

Once I left home at 16, I didn't look back until I divorced my extremely abusive husband at 18. I had no place to go but home. My mother and I were on very stressful terms, but eventually we were able to meet in a place where we could get along. Several years ago, I asked her why she let him hurt me. Why he did all of these mean things to me, yet never touched my brother. Below is a paraphrase of what she said.

"At first I thought that he would get it out of his system when he beat you. I thought he would stop. But then he didn't and I was afraid if I stepped in, he would hurt you even more. I held my breath through the days and weeks that he didn't touch you. We left him four times, and he always found us and made us come home. Back then, [in the 80s], there were no women's shelters in our area. No one in our family would help us. Abuse was accepted as part of the family life in our family. I just hoped and prayed that you wouldn't do or say something that would set your dad off. That you would just go to school and be good. But, you always seemed to make him mad somehow. After awhile, I realized that there was no way out. I dropped out of high school in the eight grade and had no way of getting a job. I couldn't even drive. Everything was in his name. Even if we would have been able to leave for good, how could I have raised you and your brother? In fear of him trying to find us and hurt us. I thought at the time that the best thing that I could do was to just wait it out. To wait until he stopped beating you or wait until you left home. I didn't want him to hurt you, but I really felt like I was powerless. Even when we had to take you to the emergency room, the doctors knew it was abuse but did nothing. I kept praying for someone to help us, but no one did. I am sorry for what he did to you, but even now I can't imagine how I would have dealt with it differently."

I was an undergraduate when she told me this. I still hate her for what she did not do, but I at least have an idea of what her motivation was for not trying to stop him. He outweighed her by 200 lbs and was a foot taller than her. She had nowhere to go and she feared that if she did try to interfere, he would hurt me even worse. She did not know about the sexual abuse until I told her right after I got married.

I even tried on my own several times to get someone to come and help me. I told my school counselors what was going on and they did nothing. I even ran away from home at age 13 and ended up at a so-called child shelter. I told them how my step-dad beat me. Right before I left, he had broken the handle of a broom over my back. Yet, they called my parents and after asking them a few questions sent me home with them. I went home with the abuser with their consent and insistence!!!

So, you see, child abuse is not the fault of the mother, but the fault of a society so interested in staying out of the family's business that it refused to help a little girl who even tries to help herself. We must stop blaming the mother and improve the way our society and government agencies deal with abuse. I think we are coming along way in this direction, but we still have so very far to go. Socio-economic situations help dictate what people think is acceptable family behavior and their is such a cycle of shame surrounding abuse that many families can't ever overcome.

I first off, agree with Scott and do feel that there is a great amount of foreshadowing in this book. The quotes from several of the characters remains significant throughout the story. I'm kinda angry about some of the comments that have been made though. I've been thinking all day of someway to put this all into perspective rather than to just speculate what took place in the story. I can say from experience that people who live in poverty do many things that seem bizarre and outrageous, but there is always some linked reason behind it. Now I myself was not a victim of poverty, but i live near a lot of it and several of my friends families were as well. In this case I think there are reasons behind the behaviors of all the characters... even Glen. Glen is the one that I feel is the most twisted by far. What I say in regard to Glen's personality is all just a theory, but if one were to look at Glen's past and even his physical demographics it is kinda easy to see what created this man. First off, he is short and kind of unproportionally shaped (like the big hands and small feet), which could be a cause of his insecurity. He was the youngest child of his family and strongly influenced by his brothers and parents to be something he wasn't mentally capable of doing. Glen had to be in control. He had to be in "daddy's pants" at all times. As for Anney... well one thing that bothers me is John's definition of abuse.. I mean what do you define as abuse?? I feel that emotional abuse can be just as traumatic as physical abuse, personally. Anney wasn't abused as a child but she had to face being a pregnant teen with now legitimate father, losing the man of her dreams and having to support Bone and Reese. I just feel that in the end Anney somehow justified leaving Bone, by her feelings that Bone was some kind of burden on her that would only make her life more complicated. That is just another theory but that is how i see it

  Child abuse. This is what has gotten everyone in class talking. Everyone thinks that it's either the mother or the father's fault that this abuse is happening. Some say there were ways out of this abusive relationship and others know it's hard to get out of. Either way this happens in the US and probably even worse all over the world. There are tons of hearsay facts that I can spout off but we all know them. This book is the best one that we have read all quarter because it really got us thinking....and talking.
  Just imagine being or knowing any of these characters and put them to life. One day, if you haven't experienced it already, you will be a part of an abusive relationship (physical, emotional, or even sexual). Your neighbor's wife, your cousin's child, the person who works next to you in the cubicle, or the person who teaches your children could OR will be abused with your knowledge of it. What are you going to do then? Put that question to heart and hopefully everyone will know what to do but until you are in that situation you seriously won't know what your decision will be. With knowledge of abuse comes consequences and whether you are ready to face those or not will be decided when it actually happens.

  I'm going to try to post without offending anyone or starting a huge debate... I really enjoyed "Bastard out of Carolina" but it was really rediculously depressing... There were two things that really bothered me the most. First of all, the fact that Bone referred to Glen as "Daddy Glen" after all that he had done to her really disturbed me. I understand that that's how she knew him at first, but i guess i just think that she would have dropped the "daddy" at some point. Also, i really had a problem with the end. I won't get into it all, but it really upset me when Anney brought the birth certificate to Bone and then left her. It made me feel like that was supposed to make everyhitn fine, but nothing was fine. I just had a hard time understanding how that "patched things up."

I thought that this book was grim but portrayed real life for many people in our country. Although most of us grew up in well-established homes, (whether your parents were together or not) I think this book was a good choice for us to get a SMALL glimpse into what life is like for some people. It's hard for any of us to judge these characters (even though they are just that... characters!) and how or what we would do if we were in that situation, because I think it is pretty safe to say none of have been in it. Ok, well that's all I am saying, I liked the book, although it was a little disturbing...

so yes, i know this point has been covered in class, but i would once again like to reiterate the fact that all these novels are lacking decent men. Daddy Glen is one of the worst examples of a father i have ever encoutntered in life or in a novel for that matter. I like to think that with a decent father, reese, bone, and momma's struggles like the rest of the family had hoped for. i liked this book a fair amount, but my lack of interest centerd around another example of horrible fatherly characters.

To MichelleS:

Don't act surprised. You had to know that I would respond to being called ignorant.

"Over the last week my perspective of Bastard Out Of Carolina has changed. Last week I would have said that I didn't like this book, but now I can honestly say that I do. I find it interesting that many people are focusing on Anney and her actions (or lack there of). I don't want to add to the fire and I realize that there is probably no way to change John's somewhat ignorant perspective so I will not try, but I would like to but in my two cents (sorry John, but that's the way I feel about it)."

Oh right. You don't want to add to the fire but you call me ignorant anyway. Yeah sure. You know, there are other ways to tell a person that you don't agree with them and still manage to not add to a fire without insulting somone.

"I agree with Meredith, "I am not trying to say what she did was right, nor am I saying that what she did was justified. But I really don't think it's fair to simply look at the fact that she didn't leave Daddy Glen and decide she is a horrible person." I know that John said that it would be different if Anney had been raised abused or if Daddy Glen had abused Anney herself instead of just Bone, but this is not the case at all. Sometimes fear wins out for no logical reason. I think that Anney was afraid to confront Glen because she was certain that he would begin to hurt her as well."

Interesting, except there is no evidence of this. Glen never hit Reese, and he begged like a little child when Anney threatened to leave him. The only way you really can argue this would be to say that Anney had an illogical fear of abuse. To argue however that, in Anney's mind, she was certain that Glen would take abuse on her seems unlikely. Throughout the book it is made much more obvious that Anney feels that she needs Glen. Anney even admits that she needs Glen "like a strong woman needs meat between her teeth". There is more evidence to suggest that Anney just wanted her life to be easier with Glen (and consequently turned her back on her daughter in the hopes that the abuse would stop) and stayed with him for that reason than to suggest that it was motivated by fear.

"Fear blinds us. Anney was placed in a situation that there was no clear way out of."

She could have looked for support from her family. She could have called the cops on Glen's sorry ass. She could have even told the doctor the truth about why Bone's tailbone was broken! In that instance at the hospitale, she even went out of her way to cover up for Glen!

"For her, in her circumstances she chose to sit by and deny anything was going on. Many people go into denial when something horrible happens. In addition, I think that we must realize that while we are lucky to have never been put in a situation like this we are also not warranted to judge the actions of others in this situation. <sigh>"

Sure we are. It is a book. Any author who puts certain characters inside a story that they expect other people to read it inviting the readers to discuss, debate and even judge the actions of the characters.

"That's all for me for today... :)"

P.S. Don't call me ignorant when you don't understand the half of me. It is not polite and it doesn't prove a thing about your argument.

i agree with what george young had to say about anney going back to her relationship with glen. It is quite easy to judge characters in a book let alone other people, but if you are not the one in an abusive relationship, you really have no idea what is going with the abuser or the abusee. so in conclusion it is easy judge everyone when you have no real experience with the situation your self.

Over the last week my perspective of Bastard Out Of Carolina has changed. Last week I would have said that I didn't like this book, but now I can honestly say that I do. I find it interesting that many people are focusing on Anney and her actions (or lack there of). I don't want to add to the fire and I realize that there is probably no way to change John's somewhat ignorant perspective so I will not try, but I would like to but in my two cents (sorry John, but that's the way I feel about it).

I agree with Meredith, "I am not trying to say what she did was right, nor am I saying that what she did was justified. But I really don't think it's fair to simply look at the fact that she didn't leave Daddy Glen and decide she is a horrible person." I know that John said that it would be different if Anney had been raised abused or if Daddy Glen had abused Anney herself instead of just Bone, but this is not the case at all. Sometimes fear wins out for no logical reason. I think that Anney was afraid to confront Glen because she was certain that he would begin to hurt her as well. Fear blinds us. Anney was placed in a situation that there was no clear way out of. For her, in her circumstances she chose to sit by and deny anything was going on. Many people go into denial when something horrible happens. In addition, I think that we must realize that while we are lucky to have never been put in a situation like this we are also not warranted to judge the actions of others in this situation. <sigh>

That's all for me for today... :)