I am so glad that we read Beloved. This is the second time reading it for me and although I would not have done that by own choice I am glad I did because I actually enjoyed it this time. I think that by discussin the moral rights and wrongs about Sethe's actions is wasting time. If we spend all of our time focusing on that we miss that bigger picture. There are so many levels and so many issues to discuss that we should not just stop there, on the very surface of the book to analyze it. The fact is, Sethe did kill her baby, so let's move on. Did anyone wonder about the last chapter? I think that is one of the most interesting parts, especially now for the second time I have mor einsights into the meaning.

It's Friday night and I suddenly looked at the clock and remembered that I forgot my post! Well, I want to continue our class discussion about Sethe. I really feel that the reason Morrison selected such a violent death for Beloved was to show just how terrible slavery is. I think for us to focus on the issue of whether or not it was murder or whether Sethe was wrong or right in doing this is missing the point. And as for the comment on it relating Beloved's death to abortion...I'm sorry, I can see the relationship, but I really don't think it related to the book at all. And I really don't think English class is the place to discuss abortion. But that aside, overall I really enjoyed Beloved, despite the difficulties in reading it.

so,once again i am late in my posting...i've read everyone's responses this week and can see that i missed a lively discussion thursday. (bummer!) this book seems to be full of heavy subjects that one could feel very strongly about. myself included. i am really enjoying the "challenge" of this book (yes, i'm still reading it....). i will go ahead and turn in the quiz when i'm finished---not for credit but to show that i've done the work. :-) i will comment further on the book when i'm finished as well. i would like to say that i'm quite looking forward to being done moving (this sunday it will all be over!!!) and even more importantly to starting "we were the mulvaneys". sorry that this isn't more critical in nature. thanks for your patience and understanding...

While reading this book, I found myslef lost many times, and having to pause to understand and process what was going on. I think this made it more difficult for me to enjoy the book, I was a little too worried about trying to pick out things that might be on the test and details I might not otherwise notice. However the take-home test made it easier, because I could take my time and go through the book and answer the questions in as much detail as I felt I needed to. Although I thought what Sethe did was wrong, I can understand to the best of my ablilty why she did it and maybe some of what was going on in her head at the time. I was a little dissapointed that our enitre class time was spent dwelling on this particular detail in the book. I believe it was VERY important, but I think there were other aspects of the book that I thought maybe should have been looked at as well. Overall, I didn't really enjoy the book, but I think it takes an interesting look at topics that are very important to our society then and now. Although I wouldn't reccomend it to a friend, I think it should continue to be taught and read.

After the discussion we had in class on Thursday I had a new appreaction for Beloved, but i still thought the book was terriable in general. The story line was anything but profound and deep. Sethe commits a murder plain and simple, but it doesn not end there due to her ignorance and misplaced trust in religion she now thinks her dead daughter is haunting her. The writing style was very complex which is hard to understand because, the story was so plain. I am not a literay expert so I might be the only one who does not like the story. I guess Oprah and I are just going to have to disagree on this book.

I am speechless about this book. I just do not know where to start! I am amazed at the level of detail put into this book. In some parts of the book I was confused. Just like I said on last weeks message board, that just when I thought that I was understanding the text/story of the book Tony Morrison threw something else at me. I searched and searched for the way that the diamond/crystal earrings dissappeared. I thought that I had read it somewhere. In the search of this answer I almost reread the entire first half of the book. I still had no clue and left my answer as it was. There is no way to be able to completely read and understand what Tony Morrison wrote, but I also thought that is what she wanted. She wanted it to be one of those books that brought up a subject that there was no right answer to. I do not necessarily like her style of writting in this book. But she is a very good author and it takes much talent to be able to write like that.

WOW! I don't even know where to start, and I don't think arguing over Sethe's actions will ever get us anywhere or help us better understand the book. One thing I wanted to comment on was how much information was jam-packed in this book. One of the quiz questions dealt with the crystal earrings. I remembered that Mrs. Garner gave them to her as a wedding present and that she no longer had them, but I could not remember what exactly happened to them. Scouring the book for the answer proved to be very difficult, unlike the Bean Trees that had labeled chapters (however, I miraculously found it). I think all the information Morrison was throwing at us made the book a difficult read. I enjoyed the parts of the book I understood though, but there were not many of those.

Another thing I was thinking about was how most of Sethe’s life she lived at Sweet Home. We know from Baby Suggs, Paul D, and Sethe how respectful Mr. and Mrs. Garner had been to their workers. Still, that not making slavery right, they did however treat them better than most slave owners. With that in mind, I cannot imagine the life a slave where he/she was never once was treated with some sort of respect or decency. Maybe Sethe had it easy for a woman in slavery... can you imagine?

Finally, I would just like to say that my favorite character in this novel was Sixo. He would walk 30 miles just to see a woman he loved. And once he saw her, he’d have to start walking back. Whatta devoted guy!

Beloved was an amazing book. Even though I am not very interested in the topic of slavery, it made me think about several related issues, like abortion, and youthanasia. In my opinion, Sethe's act was one of panic and insanity. I believe that she killed the baby in the manner that she did because she wanted to hurry up and do it before schoolteacher and his posse could round them up and take them back to slavery, so she saw a saw and did what she instinctively thought she should do in a paniced insane instance. It was obviously a moment in which Sethe was not of sound mind to any extent. Her nursing Denver with blood still on her from killing Beloved is an example of how out of her mind Sethe was at that moment.

Although, I can reason this action to make some sort of sense, I still do not agree with it. John Stuart Mill distinguishes when certain people should be allowed to interfere with other people doing things by setting a difference between certain kinds of acts. Self-regarding acts are those that only affect the doer of the act. Other-regarding acts are those that affect other people. He would say that under no circumstances would Sethe be right to kill Beloved, or anybody for that matter because that is an other-regarding. However, if Sethe wanted to commit suicide, that is ok because that act only affects her(this is debatable, but is not the issue). So, Mill would say Sethe was wrong. I agree with Mill based on these distinctions, because Beloved never had a chance, and things do change over time. The children would eventually have gained their freedom after the civil war, and they still would have experienced life. It is wrong to opt somebody else out of a situation(in this case their life), one should only be able to make that choice for themself.

  I enjoyed the Beloved and our discussion of it. I think that the online quiz was very helpful and gave me a better understanding of the book.
However, I was a little disappionted in the conversation, and the fact that Paul D was not mentioned. He is the character who has been through the most. From the prison camp in Alfred Georgia, up to Rochester New York, and down to Cinncinnati Ohio, he has been through it all.
  I think that if you put him in Sethe's postion, the day she violently murdered Beloved, he would have acted differently. This says something about the characters. Paul D who has seen more and been through more would not have committed the crime Sethe did. This makes me believe that what Sethe did was an act of insanity and selfishness.

Did anyone else notice the difference in opinions between genders on Thursday's class? Even after it was brought up, that men maybe could not relate as well to Sethes's situation and therefor saw this as a more black and white situation of her actions being wrong, no male raised their hand to argue that her actions may have been justified. Just the same, no females raised their hand and were addament about not doing the same as Sethe. I am interested to see if my little hypothesis is wrong.
In addition, I wanted to point out (what I thought to be) one of the most powerful quotes in the book. So powerful I got down out of bed and grabbed a pencil to underline it. It may also shed light on why Sethe did what she did.
"...learning that nobody stopped playing checkers just because the pieces included her children."
I thought Beloved was an excellant book.

After our rather colorful discussion yesterday about Beloved, and given that i really didn't like the book that much it is time to move on; so how about We Were the Mulvaneys? I have advanced fairly far in the novel finding it easy to read and quite interesting so far. There is just one thing i would like to pose to this discussion board; the book starts off by the youngest boy, Judd, retelling the history of his family. But as the book moves on, the njob of narrator is switched between him and an omnicient point of view. There is something to this and i can't figure out what it is. I have posed this question mainly b/c i don't want to discuss beloved too much more b/c i find it unable to relate too. But i do like the way We Were the Mulvaneys has started and am looking forward to the culmanation of events the narrator sents up in the begining.

Edited by author 04-12-2002 03:53 PM
I thought Beloved was an amazing book. I have also read Song of Solomon and personally believe that Morrison's style of writing is spectacular. I wish I could write like her. I know that there was a lot of discussion on whether the act performed by Sethe was right or wrong. I think that Morrison wanted to upset the reader but I think that in a different way then many of the individuals in the class were becoming upset. Beloved is a book about slavery and how awful it really was. I personally feel that Sethe killing Beloved was put into the book so that the reader could say, wow slavery was so horrible, someone would rather kill a child instead of sending them back into slavery. Morrison makes a very strong statement by saying this. I think that was the most signifcant point of the act.

I really didn't like the book Beloved. I liked the beginning but the last 70 pages or so were so hard for me to get through. I didn't really like the style of Toni Morisson's writting, although I do agree that it is very unique and interesting. Slavery is a very difficult topic for the world of diversity much less for a class of mostly white teenagers. I live in Cincinnati now and I've never felt scared wherever I've been. Some places have a lot of tension but I think that would be in any major city.

  After class on Thursday it is apparent how truly controversial the book "Beloved" is. I don't bleieve that Sethe's actions can be justified by anyone, but it is made apparent that she wanted to protect her child and she felt that she could best protect Beloved from saving her from the horrible grips of slavery.
   As for the Abortion issue, no one should ever say that something is right or wrong because everyone has their own opinions. My personal opinion is that Abortion is a choice that every female should have. It should not be critized by men because being pregnant and going through child birth is something they will never experience. When I think about abortion the scenario that comes to mind is if a woman is raped and becomes impregnated by the rapist, and she doesn't want to carry the child that has been conceived from such a degrading horrible act then as a woman she has the right to choose abortion. Another example is when a woman has experienced a Tubal pregannacy a woman must have an abortion or she will die. Yet another example, when incest has occured and the female wants to get an abortion to save the baby from birth defects that can be experienced from incestual ralations. I know that many people believe that there is a low percentage of incest incidents but it is not as low as everyone believes. There are so many reasons that abortion is viewed as necessary, therefore people especially men should not be so quick to pass judgement.

Well it seems that we've come to a topic that is quite diverse amongst everyone. I must say that I do not believe that Sethe's actions are applicable to be compared to that of an abortion. What Sethe did WAS murder. That child was old enough to begin to acquire some motor skills as well as a premature intellect. So I don't really see the sense in comparing it to that of an act of aborting a child. This is mainly due to how I define abortion. But like Christina said in class Toni Morrison involved this scene to make her audience consider her motive and her emotions at this time. We must all remember that this IS a fictional story so a situation like this may not have ever happened. I don't believe Sethe was ever crazy. I mean I've taken a lot of consideration into what could have possibly been going through her mind and I think that due to the situation the power of her emotions drowned out her sense of reality. She was making a decision off impulse. Sethe probably didn't put much thought into killing her child and I'm assuming that she sure as hell hadn't prearranged a plot to wipe out her entire family. Why didn't she do it earlier? Well i think that Sethe's ignorance about where she was and how far away from danger she was gave her this artificial hope that no harm would ever come her way again. We must remember that before she left Sweet Home she had no idea where she was going. I just feel that Sethe's actions were a measure of the calibur of her love for her children rather than a brutal act of violence.

I personally don't believe that I have any right to try to justify Sethe's actions. Killing Beloved was the one thing that she would regret for the rest of her life. It haunted her. Sethe had to wonder what might have happened to Beloved if she had grown up in a world of slavery. Would Beloved have been saved from a life of slavery? I'm not going to sit here and say whether I agree or disagree with Sethe's actions because I have nothing to compare it to. Nothing in our world today compares to the situation that Sethe found herself put in. It would be unfair and problematic to just assume that let's say Sethe's actions were wrong. We are then automatically shutting ourselves off from understanding Sethe as a character.

Scott: I appreciate hearing a male perspective on abortion, however I will refrain from giving my own here and now. I don't believe that abortion connects to this issue. If we try to connect the two, we'll only be trying to rationalize what Sethe did, and I don't think that we need to do that to understand the story this excellent novel is trying to portray.