Edited by author 10-03-2002 01:38

Watermen on the Thames

Jan Hill would like to know if anyone else is researching the WINGATE family who worked as watermen on the Thames from around 1700. Their baptisms etc. took place at St Mary's, Battersea, London.

---

Edited by author 09-03-2002 19:47

WINGATEs in Lincolshire and Yorkshire

Graham Arthur Wingate is asking if anyone knows about WINGATEs in the North of England. His father & grandparents were from Lincolnshire / Yorkshire and his great-grandparents from Lincolnshire. His great-grandfather was Station Master in Scredington.

---

Edited by author 09-03-2002 19:48

WINGATEs in the North of England

Unfortunately, I know very little about these branches but here are a few snippets:

• WINDEATTs in Lincolnshire. There was a family of WINDEATTs in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries - in Grimsby - I would guess they were fishermen who moved up there from Devon but, as yet, I have no proof.
• WINDEATT in Yorkshire - an Emma Windeatt PAYNE married a James HOLLAND in 1873.
• If you go to at the A2A database and type Luke Wingate into the keywords field then you will find a reference to a Wingate in Yorkshire in 1759. Could be a connection? You can e-mail the record office (address on the East Riding of Yorkshire page) and ask for an estimate of the cost of the photocopy if you are interested.

---

Edited by author 09-03-2002 19:21

Musical Windeatts

Philip Windeatt says that Louis Vernon WINDEATT , who is mentioned on my People Page , was his grandfather's (Arthur d.1987) brother.

"I believe Arthur also played occasionally in Corelli's band alongside Louis. They were both in the Royal Artillery (based in Woolwich Arsenal) during the First World War. My father, Louis Arthur,is named after his uncle and father. I guess we are the Kingston-Upon- Thames, Surrey Windeatts, although we have all scattered now."

He also asks:

Which Windeatt left Horrabridge to come to Surrey? when and why? interesting occupation?

Edited by author 10-03-2002 01:46

Musical WINDEATTS on the Horrabridge tree.

Most are descended from John WINDEATT, who was christened on 12/06/1805 in Buckland Monachorum parish church, Devon.

This John WINDEATT, was the eldest son of another John WINDEATT of Horrabridge who married Thomasine HOSKINS in 1802. He was the first of the seven brothers - you can see them all on the tree on my Horrabridge page .

John and Thomasine and their children moved to Exeter - probably just after his father (also John WINGATE,a mason of Horrabridge) died in 1823. John, the son, married a Mary Ann FROOM in 1830 and had lots of occupations - starting off as a Hellier (Tiler) but then (like most of the other brothers) eventually moving out of building work and into service occupations.

John and Mary were running an eating and coffee house in West Teignmouth in 1851 and in 1881 he was still working (aged 75) - this time as a Sanitary Inspector.

John and Mary's second surviving son - Charles Allen WINDEATT 1837-1897 - was a music teacher and at some point moved himself and his family to Weston-super-Mare.

Most of Charles' children were musicians. Corelli and Frederick seemed to have moved on to Kingston, Surrey by about 1900 - although the other children appeared to stay in the West. Corelli (1868-1947) was at school in London in 1881 - and possibly Frederick too - I haven't got the record to hand at the moment.

---

Edited by author 09-03-2002 19:38

Sporty WINDEATTs

Phil Windeatt also comments that

A couple of years ago I was surprised to see a Windeatt play for Herne Bay Football Club in the Kent League.

I have listed some more sporty WINDEATTs on my People Page

---

Edited by author 09-03-2002 19:42

Physical Characteristics?

I have been asked a few times about WINDEATT characteristics. Here are a few that have been reported:

• Second toe much longer than the middle one
• Big noses
• Not very tall
• Fair/Light Brown Hair
• Good at Swimming

Do any of these ring any bells with you and your family branch? If so please let us know by replying to this message. And please say which branch you are from (if you know)?

---

Edited by author 10-03-2002 01:35

This is a message board for people interested in WINDEATT/WINGATE/WINGETT family history.

Click on the Post a New Message button to post information, queries or comments here.

I have summarised a few of the comments from the previous message board below but please repost if you wish and I will delete my summary.

---

Edited by author 28-03-2002 18:58
I've just got started looking into our family tree. My brother got me interested and during my net search found your web site. I have some information about the Smerdon and Windeat connection. Back in 1710 or so a Richard Smerdon( the third generation Richard) from Buckland in the Moor, Devon marrried Phillippa Windeat, they had 5 children . I'm from another branch of Smerdon's of that area
and a recently a desendant of that branch married a Jason Windeatt in Australia, any relation ? I suggest going to 2 sites. First www.begent.freeserve.co.uk/ehsmerdons.htm for the first connection and www.begent.freeserve.co.uk/rchsmerdons.htm for the later connection. Have fun.

Edited by author 29-03-2002 19:27

Windeatt-Smerdon connection

Thanks, Sheila, for this information.

The SMERDONs have been well researched - helped by the fact that they stayed in the same place(s) on Dartmoor for some generations - unlike the Dartmoor WINDEATTS who appear to have moved around a lot. I did know that Phillippa had married into the SMERDONs but unfortunately we don't know any more about her. But I didn't know about the more recent connection - small world?

Thanks again for the web links - I will add them onto my links page.

---

hi looking over your web site i was just woundering if we are in the same family tree i come from the windatts in north hill cornwall england that moved to ontario canada i believe andrew windatt that married elizbeth davey in 1811 in cornwall england they came over to canada sometime after 1822 but dont no when, is it the same family ??? i know they lived in bowmanville ontario canada if so please e-mail me and let me know thank you judy e-mail hurstjahurst@cs.com

Edited by author 03-06-2002 20:16
Hello Judy

I suspect that the WINDATTs of North Hill are related to the Devon WINDEATTs. The counties are so close and the name is fairly rare so that it seems very likely.

Unfortunately, we don't have any evidence as yet of the link.

I am very busy currently but when I get a chance I will try and find the contact addresses of some other people I came across who were researching the North Hill WINDATTs. I'll e-mail you directly when I do.

Thanks for getting in touch.

Sandra

Hi, I looked at your site because I was doing some research on my family history. The most I know is that I'm linked to the Staverton Tree & I was wondering if there was any further information you could send me please. My email address is LWindeatt23@Hotmail.com

Edited by author 15-06-2002 12:51

Staverton Tree Windeatts

Hi Laura

What would you like to know? Try e-mailing Peter Windeatt first as he knows most about this tree because he is related and has done most of the research (his e-mail address is at the bottom of the Staverton tree page).

If you don't hear back from him though please do try me again. If you know the name of your grandparents (or great grandparents) that will help us link you in to the correct branch.

Are you in the UK or the US?


Thanks very much for getting in touch

Sandra

I am looking for Thomas George WINGATE from Stirling, SCT. He was in the RN, Commander of the "Biter" a gunship in 1798. He was born on or before 1776, In the parish of Portsea, Southampton in 1801 he married Thomasine Devonshire, and became a prisoner of war shortly afterwards and was held prisoner at Verdun in France from 1805, the year the HMS Biter was wrecked near Calais just a few weeks after the Battle of Trafalgar. His wife was in Verdun with him and four more children were born in Verdun. Elizabeth born 1808 in Verdun, eventually came to NSW with her brother James in 1834. In 1836 she married a widower, William Fisher (my great great grandfather), who had three daughters and one son, Elizabeth had a son, William in 1837 then William Snr died in 1838. To complicate this story, her oldest step-daughter Jane married John Turner (my great grandparents), then John`s brother Thomas Turner arrived from England and in 1845 the widow Elizabeth married the brother-in-law of her oldest step-daughter. Just try and work that one out!!! So I really would be grateful for any help with the Thomas George Wingate from Stirling, SCT.

Hello Lillian

There have been a few messages about this Thomas WINGATE on the Ancestry message board, see the thread

http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=mess...names.wingate&m=106

Mike Hallinan is also descended from your Thomas George and, if you are not already in touch, then he will be a useful contact.

I did wonder - given the Devon christening and the wife's name (Tamzin variants are very common in Devon) whether there might be a Devon connection but I don't recall finding any other clues (there is a Lucretia WYNDYET in 1690 but that is stretching it a bit!!!).

Please let me know if you find out any more about Thomas George WINGATE's antecedents.

Regards, Sandra

Never knew there were so many of us! My Grandparent were Ernest and Ellen Windeatt, moved to Storrington Sussex at end WWII from Londonn. Where can I find more?

Hello to all family......

Nice to find that the family has spread well over the planet.
My ancestors hailed from Devon and would like to e mail for a chat with any members of my own blood from my branch.
My tree is the Ugborough branch starting 1591.
I live in Australia and I am currently filling in the Australian branch to be forward to Windgeats on the web.
I can be contacted at imagine_fablab@powerup.com.au if you would like to e mail.
Regards Alan Wingett

Just like to thank you Sandra (and all your helpers) for compiling such an interesting and factual insight into Our family name. Sadly, I have never looked into my family's history before but this web site has given me an interest. I am the Son of Terry as mentioned in your section on Sporty Windeatts and I am pleased to find out that I share the name of an Olympic Silver Medalist. My Nan, Claire Windeatt has been looking into Our family tree for a number of years, but she is no surfer, so this information will delight her and possibly answer a few questions. I hope she can provide you with some useful information as well.
Thanks again

Edited by author 20-10-2002 14:27
Hi Graham

Thanks for getting in touch! Yes, we would be very grateful for any information that your nan can supply.

I have quite a lot more information that I haven't had time to add to the website as yet but I hope to be able to spend a bit more time on it in the holidays of this coming year (I am a teacher and very busy during term times).

One section that I would like to add is for photographs . . . I have a couple which I will post when I get round to it. If your nan has any old family photos they would be very welcome.

Of course, for privacy reasons, I have to restrict the web site to information over 100 years old (unless it is already published elsewhere), but more recent photographs would be welcome provided the persons concerned give their permission. Photographs of places would also be very interesting.

If anyone else has any photographs of older WINDEATTs or the places they lived in then please get in touch. (We can then see for ourselves if the stories about 'big noses' are true!)

I noticed that John Boyce was a witness to one of these wills(1818). One of my ancestors was John Boyce who lived in Cockington at this time. It may well that they are one and the same. Can you tell me any more about John Boyce?
Thanks Clive Boyce

Sorry Clive but I know no more than is in the Will which is transcribed here. Unfortunately, it doesn't have an address or any further information about the witness.

If you find out any more about him, though, please let us know for the record.

Thanks.

Hi...my great grandfather was named James Windeatt. I know he came from England. He was a photographer in Chicago and had 3 daughters, Blanche Marie, Charlotte Helene and Dorothy. My mother is the daughter of Dorothy although she never knew her as Dorothy died when my mom was 13 months old. Blanche and Charlotte became her parents. As for dates, I'm not to sure, I could get back to you on that. I was wondering if somehow we're related and if you know where I could find James Windeatt photos for sale. Thanks! :)

Edited by author 02-12-2002 21:41
Hello Lori,

Yes, we know this family - there is a reference to James the photographer on my people page, see

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/people.htm#artistic

We also know which branch he is on . . . see my Staverton tree page:

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/tree-staverton.htm

If you look at the fragment of the tree labeled The Transatlantic Connection , then the John on the far right is James' father - the hairdresser and wigmaker.

If you go to my records page you can see the family on the 1851 census:

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/census51.htm#Plymouth

they have been mistranscribed as WINDEALL. At this point John was still a woolcomber and hadn't yet got to Plymouth and the hairdressing and James, youngest son, was still to be born (family is coloured green).

We have James down as emigrating to the US in 1882 and marrying an Augusta and with two daughters: Charlotte Helen and Dorothy Alvina. This bit of information came from the US 1920 census which you can find on the web I think. Where was Blanche then I wonder?

You can find photos for sale quite often on the web by using a search engine (e.g. google). There are usually some on this site, e.g.

http://www.rjbalrog.com/theater/cabinets/index_page3.html

http://www.rjbalrog.com/theater/cabinets/index_page6.html

They are rather pricy! Pity your great aunts didn't have any to pass on to you!

Anyone who belongs to the Staverton tree is related to you!

If you have any further information about James and his family that you would like to add to the information in the 'artistic' section, then I would be only too happy to include it. Do you have any family snaps?

Sandra

I have posted the pictures Lori kindly contributed to a Gallery page:

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/gallery/gallery.htm

If anyone else has any old family photos they are willing to share, then I would be very grateful. The site is a bit short of pictures at the moment.

Sandra

Apologies for not replying sooner - somehow I missed your message. I think your grandfather, Ernest, was a son of Frederick Joseph of the Staverton branch.

Frederick Joseph had 14 children (and seems to have been personally responsible for many of the Windeatts around today!). This is the Staverton branch - see

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/tree-staverton.htm

Peter Windeatt has done a lot of the research on this branch (as well as on all the others) and you might like to try contacting him if you haven't done so already.

Sandra

If anyone is related to a Norman Oswald WINDEATT then please could they get in touch via this board or via an e-mail to me. A relative would like to get in contact.

Hello

Does anyone have any information on Mary Winget, I think she was born in Woolborough in abt 1774 and I believe she had a sister called Dinah.

Any information much appreciated

Matt Meyer

Hello Matt

We don't seem to know anything at the moment (but I haven't looked thoroughly I confess). I may not have much time to check through everything until Easter or Summer so please do ask again then.

I have come across a Meyer connection before . . . I think there is one in Tasmania? Are you a descendant or is that just a coincidence?

Sandra

Do you have any entries for Winnett(Windeatt) in the
Worc area. My family are generally from the Bristol
area but I have linked William Wynnyett (1514) in
the Mano or Kempley-Gloucestershire. There is 1718 head
stone in the church for a Windgod.

Any response would be appreciated.

Direct link to Winnett who found the town of Winnett
in Montana.

Regards

Terry Winnett
(Newent Glos - born in the Rhondda Valley S. Wales)
ziggyhumbug@aol.com

Edited by author 20-02-2003 20:58
Hello

Yes there are lots of WYNNIATTs in Gloucestershire and unlike the WINDEATTs of Devon they seemed to stay fairly localised in GUITING GRANGE and DYMOCK for a long time although latterly moving off towards Bristol.

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/origins.htm#winniate

I originally thought there must be a link with our Devon lot (the counties are not too far apart) but the Gloucestershire earliest records go back a long way so it looks like they are of separate origin.

I don't know if anyone else is currently researching this little nook of a rare surname but I imagine someone must have. As they stayed put (or at least within a few miles of the same parish) for a long time I don't think it would be that difficult.

If you haven't done so already, you could try the Gloucestershire mailing list to see if anyone knows about them . .

<http://www.rootsweb.com/~jfuller/gen_mail_....html#GLOUCESTER>;

And Cyndi's list has a lot of resources listed if you scroll right on down the page:

http://www.cyndislist.com/eng-gls.htm

Have you been in touch with Andrew WINNETT whose research into WINNETT variats is linked from the paragraph on my page above? His e-mail address is at the bottom of his page. And there is a section on a. WYNNIATES of Gloucestershire on the page too.

Let us know what you find out and please tell us more about the Montana connection?

P.S. There is also a WYNNIATT from Bristol on my Criminals page . . . scroll down to Teenage Vandalism in Bristol:

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/criminals.htm

Sandra

Hello Sandra

I do have some connections with Tasmania although it's not through either my Meyer or Winget connections - as far as I know anyway.

With regards to my last message regarding Mary Winget and her sister Dinah... one of my relatives has managed to, she is sure, discover the parents of my Mary who married James Mare. Her parents were James Winget who married Charity Wooling in 1764 in Wolborough. Dinah wasn't actually her sister, but her sister-in-law, having married her elder brother James in 1789.

Does Wolborough feature on anybody's tree?

Matt

Edited by author 06-03-2003 19:11
Hello Matt

The IGI records 134 WINDEATT (and variants) events for WOLBOROUGH - the second highest number for any Devon parish. UGBOROUGH comes top with 165 and the other parishes with over 100 events are WIDECOMBE (119), Exeter (103) and BERRY POMEROY & BRIDGETOWN (101).

Bearing in mind the caveats about basing any conclusions on IGI data it does seem to be an important location for family members.
(see my ORIGINS web page at http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/origins.htm#misleading )

However, I don't think anyone has managed to develop any sort of family tree structure for the area. You'll know of course that records at this time are fragmentary and difficult to identify with any confidence unless you spend a lot of time trawling through all kinds of other records (and you really need to go to Devon to do it!).

However from the IGI data it looks as though your Mary's parents married in 1764 and had Susanna (1765), John (1767), James (1770) and Mary (1773). I don't know what happened to them after that - perhaps they moved to a non-IGI parish or perhaps Charity died and/or didn't have any more children.

Again from the IGI data it looks as though James' father may have been the James WINYATT christened on 29th Feb 1735, parents recorded as "John and ?". This seems likely since James' first son was christened John and it was a common practice to call the first son after your father.

WOLBOROUGH parish register records started in 1558 and it looks as though they were probably well established there because the first recorded event for the family was 1568
(see http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/origins.htm#igi).

There is an Online Parish Clerk for WOLBOROUGH

http://www.wotton.accessgenealogy.com/opc1.htm

and you may be able to find out more from him.

The GENUKI page will probably also be useful if you haven't explored it already:

http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/genuki/DEV/Wolborough/

Sandra

Edited by author 06-03-2003 19:20
Matt

Is your relative sure that Dinah married James and not John?

If you look at our Wills page you can see John's Will where he talks about his "dear wife" Dinah. Could this be them? West Teignmouth is just down the river from Newton Abbot.

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/wills.htm#johnwingett

Sandra

Elizabeth Wingett, sister-in-law of Elizabeth Wingett, will proved 11/1/1855 was my great-great-great grandmother. I have a photograph of her. I also have pictures and
photographs of Thomas Wingett, Thomas Tozer Wingett,
William Browne Wingett and other members of the family.
Elizabeth Wingett, wife of Thomas Wingett, was the daughter
of Lieutenant William Browne, Royal Artificers, of Stoke
Damerel.

Thanks! I have been wondering who they were? Can you give us a family tree (with photos if possible)?

My 4th great grandmother, Anna Wingate, was a governess at Ughbrook Manor for Lord Clifford of Chudleigh in 1780. On August 15, 1780 she gave birth to a daughter of Hugh, the eldest son of Lord Clifford. The child was baptised and placed under the care of the Rev Joseph Reeves at Doddiscombleigh, Devon. I would like to learn where and when Anna Wingate was born and what happened to her after she gave birth. I have much information on the child, Mary Warner Clifford.

Edited by author 12-05-2003 22:46
Ah, this is interesting!

There is a WINDEATT(variant) family in Chudleigh - we have a will from 1850

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/wills/williamwinget1850.htm

and there are some probable brothers and sisters in the 1851 census.

William (the piano maker) and his brothers and sister all seem to have been born around 1780, so your Anna is the right age to be their Aunt. Unfortunately the Chudleigh parish church records are not on the IGI BUT there is an Online Parish Clerk for Chudleigh who will do look ups, so she may be able to help us find out who William's parents were and if he had an aunt called Anna/Anne and when she was born.

http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/genuki/DEV/Chudleigh/#Genealogy

Are you sure she was definitely a governess? If she was just a nurserymaid or something, I imagine she would be more likely to be local.

If she was definitely a governess then, I assume, she would have had a reasonable education and that, I suppose, must mean the Totnes tree although I cannot spot any likely Annes. However, if my memories of Bronte novels are anything to go by, governesses moved about the country a bit so, it's possible, she is not a Devon WINGATE at all?

I wonder what happened to her after the birth? Perhaps she died during childbirth . . . if she gave birth locally then I imagine there would be a burial record. Again the OPC may be able to help with this.

If the daughter was called CLIFFORD and not WINGATE then there must have been some recognition by the family so maybe she was pensioned off somewhere . . . I'll keep an eye out for any Annas or Annes of about the right age.

Where did you get your original information from? There seem to be quite a few books on the CLIFFORDs on the genuki page . . . maybe there is something in one of those?

Let me know how you get on - I would like to find out about the piano maker's background too.

Sandra

Edited by author 13-05-2003 07:45
Hello again Jon

You have probably seen this already but there is a lot about the Cliffords here - including some poetry by the Rev. Reeves that you mention:

http://www.uk-genealogy.org.uk/england/Dev...story/Chapter6.html

Hello Sandra,
                     I am receiving e-mails from you addressed to someone called John.

           Best wishes, Ian Hearder.

Sandra:

Thank you very much for your information on sources of Wingate family history. I will see what I can find.

You asked whether Anna Wingate was a governess. I received the following from Lord Clifford of Chudleigh, quoting from his historical sources: "15 Aug 1780 baptizame Mariam filiam Anna Wingate in Diserto Dartevi, Joseph Reeve." This is followed by an 1815 commentary, "This was the fruit of an illicit connexion with this Honourable Gent and was baptized at
Doddiscombleigh. The mother was introduced to the Clifford family by her cousin, the Butler, Atkinson, and was Governess to the children in the nursery. The young Mary was properly educated and provided for and subsequently married a Mr. Consitt. Their son is now a Captain in the British Navy." "Hugh Clifford later became 5th Lord Clifford and married Apollonia daughter of the last Lord Langdale (6 months after the liaison). He was a sick man and died in Munich when he was succeeded by his brother."
The following is extracted from the notes of Captain Thomas Consitt, RN who married Mary Warner Clifford: "Mary Warner Clifford born Aug 15, 1780 at Chudleigh, Devon was the only daughter of the Honorable Hugh Edward Henry Clifford of Chudleigh, born July 2, 1756. He was the eldest son of Lord Hugh and succedded to the inheritence of his father September 1, 1783- only surviving ten years-dying at Munich January 15th 1793, age 37. His daughter remained at Chudleigh until five years old when she was placed by her guardian the Rev. Jos. Reeves at a Catholic boarding school at Hammersmith kept by Ms. Barker who eventually removed to Phillimore place, Kensington. At the age of ten she embarked for the Augustine convent at Bruges which at that period was much patronized for its superior mode of education being conducted by Mrs. Moore, the Rev. Mother, a lineal descendant from the celebrated St. Thomas More, Lord Chancellor under Henry VIII. In 1794 the French Revolution drove the community over to England where they met with a convenient assylum at Hengrave Hall, the deserted mansion of Sr. Thos. Gage in Suffolk where they remained until the conclusion of the war. The guardian and friends of this young lady were desirous she should become a nun, but not succeeding, she was removed into Yorkshire under the care of Mr. Langdale of Houghton who placed her with Miss Gledhill on a pension from the recommendation of Dr. Gillow, where she remained until of age March 9th 1802 and was then married."

The Thomas and Mary Consitt must have had great respect for the Clifford family because they named their second son Charles Clifford Consitt. Charles Clifford was the younger brother of Hugh Clifford and assumed the title of 6th Lord Clifford of Chudleigh in 1793. The Consitts named their third son, Francis Hugh Consitt, taking the first names of each of the child's grandfathers.

I don't know whether you wanted all this information, but it is interesting. Thank you again.

Jon

Oh yes, this is all very interesting. And now we know that her cousin was an Atkinson that may help track down the right Anna.

I have lots more questions - but I will e-mail you directly with them.

Hello

If you contacted us recently about the marriage of a Sarah Windeatte to William Fox in July 1689 , could you please e-mail us again? We are having problems replying to your e-mail and need to try again with a fresh message. E-mail addresses can be found at the bottom of the Home page.

Sandra

The will of Elizabeth Wingett, I believe the witness Wynell
Major should read Wynell Mayow, they owned a large estate
in Sydenham known as Old House. The family also owned estates at Bray and Saltash in Cornwall.

Elizabeth Browne was born at Woolwich in 1786, the daughter
of Lieutenant William Browne (1748-1833) of the Royal Artificers and Elizabeth Henderson. They later moved to
Stoke Damerel, near Plymouth. She married Thomas Wingett on
11th February 1811. Elizabeth died 22nd March 1862. They
had seven children:- Elizabeth born 4th November 1811, died
10th August 1870. William born 16th January 1814, died 18th
April 1815. Mary McLeod born 21st October 1815, died 6th
April 1818. Anne Browne born 27th December 1817, died 29th May 1885. Thomas Tozer born 25th March 1820, died 25th April 1860. William Browne born 10th November 1822, died 25th May 1860. Sarah Maria born 12th May 1825, died 24th July 1833.
Elizabeth Wingett, born 1811, married George Parry Hearder,a
printer and publisher of Plymouth on 9th April 1836. He died
9th November 1844 and is buried in the churchyard of
Eggbuckland, near Plymouth. In 1851, Elizabeth Hearder moved to Dumfries where she took the position of Matron at
the recently founded Crichton Institution at the invitation of her cousin, Dr. W. A. F. Browne who was the Medical Superintendent. She had four children.
Anne Browne Wingett did not marry, in 1859 she was living
in Broughty Ferry, Angus, probably with her brother, Dr.
William Browne Wingett. Thomas Tozer Wingett was at one time Apothecary at the Crichton Institution. Later he was
Medical Superintendent at the Dundee Royal Lunatic Asylum.
He married Marjory Forbes Dow, 30th June 1854, Dundee. She became Matron at the Dundee Asylum.
William Browne Wingett was a physician at Broughty Ferry
and at one time at the Crichton Institution.
After the death of Thomas Wingett, Elizabeth Wingett appears in the 1851 census living at Compton Gifford, near Plymouth. She is described as Fundholder.
1851 census, Compton Gifford.
Elizabeth Wingett, head, widow, age 64, Fundholder, born
Woolwich
Anne Wingett, Dau., Unmarr., age 33, spinster, born Plymouth
Elizabeth Hearder, Dau., widow, age 39, annuitant, born
Plymouth.
Elizabeth Hearder, Grand dau., Unm., age 14, scholar, born
Plymouth.
George Hearder, Grand son, Unm., age 12, scholar, born
Plymouth.
Thomas Hearder, Grand son, Unm., age 10, scholar, born
Plymouth.
Mary Hearder, Grand dau., Unm., age 8, scholar, born
Plymouth.
George Parry Hearder and Elizabeth Wingett had four children
Elizabeth Anne, born 1837, Plymouth, died 6th Oct. 1866
Dumfries.
George Jonathan, born 2nd May 1839, Plymouth, died 24th
January 1894, Carmarthen.
Thomas Browne, born 11th December 1840, Plymouth, died 1871
Broughty Ferry.
Mary Wingett, born 1843, Plymouth, died 9th February 1929,
Dumfries.
The four children were brought up at the Crichton, Dumfries with the children of Dr. Browne. George Jonathan became a
doctor and later he was Medical Superintendent of the
Joint Counties asylum, Carmarthen. Thomas Browne became a
dentist. Mary Wingett followed her mother as Matron at the Crichton-Royal asylum. Elizabeth Anne and Mary Wingett did
not marry.

Edited by author 07-06-2003 18:38
Thanks for this information. I have corrected the name of the witness on the will page as you suggest (I am sure you must be right).

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/wills...ethwingett_1855.htm

I will try and find out who else these WINGETTs could be related to further back along the line. There would appear to be some links with Bridestowe and, when I have time, I will try and find out if we can find any clues in the registers there.

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/wills/janewingett_1827.htm

---

I am searching for the parents of Thomas Wingett who married
Elizabeth Browne 11 February 1811, probably at Plymouth.

Hello Ian

I feel fairly certain that Thomas WINGETT was the son of the Jane WINGETT who made the will available on my page

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/wills/janewingett_1827.htm

She had obviously fallen out with him as she cuts him off with the proverbial shilling!

But I can't easily find records of the children's baptisms nor any likely marriage of a Jane with a WINGETT spouse.

On the IGI There is a marriage of a Jane TOZER with a William WINGETT in TOTNES in 1781 and this looks like a possibility given that your Thomas called his own son Thomas Tozer Wingett.

Again from the IGI it would appear that this couple may have had a son in 1782 - William - and a daughter - Mary - in 1794 - both in Totnes but I can't find any other likely baptisms.

It is very difficult though to identify people before 1837 with any accuracy. It's a pity we didn't find the will of Jane's husband - at least then we would have known his name.

But I'll keep an eye out though for likely matches.

Hello Sandra,

I am trying to trace the origin of my surname and drawn a blank at my great grandfather James Henry Wingeatt who, I believe, was born at Vauxhall Road, Plymouth in the mid-1800's. He is reputed to have worked on the pilot boat whisper and later at eddystone lighthouse. I have no doubt from reading your origin of the names that there is a link.

Regards

Mike

Thomas Browne Hearder married Sophia Saunders on 1 January 1870, he died on 13 October 1871. Would be interested to hear from Ian Hearder.

Hello Mary, Please let me know your interest.
Regards, Ian Hearder. IHearder@aol.com

Edited by author 20-07-2003 20:20

The WINGEATT surname

Hello Michael

Apologies for the delay in replying but I have been on holiday.

Yes, any WINGEATTs are almost certainly part of this surname's spelling variants. I'll have a look through the information we have and get back to you.

It's possible that we may not have anything though because initially we did not realise the significance of the variations and concentrated mainly on the WINDEATT name . . . . more recently we have been collecting all the possible variants but we have not been through all the lists again double-checking I am afraid.

Anyway, your surname must be very unusual! WINDEATT is pretty rare and WINGEATT much rarer - I have never come across a modern version before. It is quite common in the older documents though.

---

Edited by author 20-07-2003 21:37

James Henry WINGEATT

Hello again Michael

I couldn't find anything in our records but I have found the following:

A James Henry WINGEATT married a Susan HOUNSELL on 23rd January 1879 at St. John's Church Plymouth. And in the 1881 Census a James WINGEATT, aged 24 and married, birthplace Plymouth was on a vessel - the Matje - in Gloucester working as a Mate. In the same census a Susanah WINGETT, a seaman's wife, was living at 32 Howe St. Plymouth with two sons - a James H. WINGETT, aged 5 and born in Stonehouse, Plymouth and an Edwin WINGETT aged 1 also born in Stonehouse Plymouth.

The census information is available from http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp - choose census then British 1881.)

Although some things don't quite match this family seems very likely to be yours given the names and the maritime connections.

Is it at all possible that your James Henry was born in the mid 1870s rather than the mid 1880s? The other problem is the father's marriage to Susannah HOUNSELL which seems to have taken place a couple of years after young James was born - maybe James' mother died and Susanna was a second wife?

Have you got your ggf's marriage certificate? This should give you his age on marriage (to get confirmation of his date of birth) and his father's name and occupation. This should confirm whether this is your family.

If so, then you could look for your ggf's birth certificate in 1875-1876 and see if his mother had a different name. You could check out James Henry and Susanah's marriage certificate and see if he is noted as a widower. If so, you could then look for his father's previous marriage to find out who his mother was.

I don't know how familiar you are with looking for certificates etc., but if you are not, then there is lots of advice available on Genuki (it's cheaper to write directly to the local offices for example).

Let me know how you get on and please e-mail me directly with your own e-mail address (mine is at the bottom of most of the web pages).

Sandra

I have a birth certificate of james henry wingeatt born 6 dec 1854,london inn court vauxhall street,plymouth.
Mothers name mary ann wingett formerly akehurst ,farther
edward wingett registered in the district of charles the marter devon.
Hope this is of some use to you.

We to are trying to tracing our family tree.

Yes, Colin, this is very helpful. Although the dates are do not exactly match I suspect the James Henry whose birth certificate was 1854 is the same one who married Susan Hounsell in 1879.

Do you have an occupation for the father on the birth certificate?

I will see what I can find out about any likely 'Edward' but an occupation would be helpful for identification purposes.

Do you and Mike already know each other? If not, then I would guess you are related via this James Henry.

Could you both e-mail me personally as well so I can get back in contact with you if anything else should turn up in the future.

Sandra

Edward WINGEAT married Mary Ann AKEHURST in Stoke Damarel parish church on 7th August 1842, entry 147.

Here they are in the 1851 census:

Name Relationship Mar Age Sex Occupation Birthplace Possible DOB
Edward WINGETT Head M 30 M Mariner Aveton Gifford-Dev 1820
Mary WINGETT Wife M 29 F --- Plymouth-Dev 1821
Emma WINGETT Daur - 6 F --- Plymouth-Dev 1844
Edward WINGETT Son - 4 M --- Plymouth-Dev 1846
Mary A. WINGETT Daur - 2 F --- Plymouth-Dev 1848
  Address: 35 New Street, Plymouth,Plymouth St Andrew

You can write directly to the local register office for a copy of the marriage certificate and find out who his parents were.

You are also in luck in that Chris Burgoyne has been researching Aveton Gifford family history for yonks and may well be able to help with the earlier information:

http://www-civ.eng.cam.ac.uk/cjb/agrecord.htm

Please let me know how you get on and perhaps we can link this information into one of the known trees.

Sandra

hi sandra yes we do have an ocupation it saye on the birth cert seaman trinity service we did not know about these other children either

Hi Sandra,

Colin and myself have only recently been in contact, by e-mail only, but intend to meet up soon. We have established that our grandfathers were brothers. Your assumption that James Henry is the one who married Susan Hounsell is further bourne out by my Grandfather's full name of William John Hounsell Wingeatt. Colin's grandfather was named Edward which carried on another family name. My e-mail address is wingeatts@mwingeatt.freeserve.co.uk

Hello Michael & Colin/Sue

I think there might be a chance that your family is related to a WINGET tree that we have only recently started putting together.

The piano-maker, whose will is on my page

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/wills/williamwinget1850.htm

, had several brothers and sisters who were all baptised in Kingsteignton, Devon under the surname WINGEAT although they mostly settled on WINGET as the century progressed. My web page is out of date - I now have more information on this family (kindly sent on from a fellow researcher).

However, this could just be a red herring as I cannot find any links with Aveton Giffard and there is no likely Edward on the tree. Please let me know when you get a reply from Chris Burgoyne about any christening of your Edward there.

Hello, I am Bill (William Winget) born Nov. 22, 1931. I have two children who would be in their 40's a girl and
a boy who I have not seen sence they were babies. I am
active and still work driving truck. I have a sister and
was born in New Jersey. I live in Phoenix Arizona now.

I would like to locate my sister and children if any one
can help I would appreciate it.

Looking for family. My E-mail address is: Dynel88@hotmail.com I have a sister and two adult
children somewhere in New Jersey.........Help me if you
can I am 71 years old and have not seen my family sence
1955

Edited by author 08-08-2003 10:35
Hello Bill,

I wish you all the best with your search. You never know - one of your daughters might be looking for YOU via the web.

I suggest you also post a message to the general genealogy boards - there are three for WINGET(T) and they are listed on my page:

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/links.htm#general

These boards are mostly used by Americans and you are more likely to get a response there I would guess. When you get to the board (having dodged all the adverts which are increasingly annoying), and posted your own message, you should then also find the search box and search for your own name in the very many pages of messages. Maybe one of your relatives has already posted a message looking for you? You could also try searching the messages for your father's name or for "New Jersey" or any other words that a relative may have used.

There are also some boards which are used for finding living persons - I am not too familiar with these but there must be some in North America. Here in England, the Salvation Army has always specialised in helping people find missing relatives . . . there must be something similar in the states?

I found a web page which seems to be aimed at Americans and includes a link to a board which might be helpful plus other advice . .

http://www.yourfamily.com/missing_people.html

Good luck!

My name is Timothy Wingett
my father is Wayne Wingett
how may i be part of all this????
Any chance i could get someone to email me @ taimano5@comcast.com

THANKS!

Also is this family german ? If not what?
Thanks
Tim Wingett

Edited by author 30-10-2003 05:46
Tim

First, where are you from?

If you are from the States then there are some WINGETT message boards that you can visit and post a message on. There seem to be lots of WINGETT/WINGET/WINGATE researchers in the States some with quite long and extensive family trees. Someone should be able to help you if you post a message to one of those boards.

If you are from the UK then get back to us with a bit more information - grandfather's approximate date of birth and location, say.

Secondly, the family is definitely not German! Please have a read of the web pages on my main site:

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/index.htm

and, especially, the ORIGINS page and the LINKS page.

Do get back to us again when you have had a look.

Regards, Sandra

I have seen a postcard dated 28/12/1912 from Edward Windeatt thanking Walter Hitchcock for a beautiful & interesting book "Reminiscences Volunteer Fireman". Does anyone know the whereabouts of this book or any information about this whatsoever?

Hello Valerie

Go to the British Library site:

http://blpc.bl.uk/

and

type your title into the title field. The book details will appear.

If you live in the UK you can print out this page and take it to your local library and they will order it for you (my local library currently charges 80p. for this).

What is your interest in this? Who was Walter Hitchcock? Any relation with the film director? I only ask because Alfred Hitchcock used a story from Devon in one of his early films (which includes a 'Widow Windeatt' in its cast) and I have wondered if there was a connection.

Regards, Sandra

Sandra,

Thanks for the e-mail. I had visited your website a year or two and again today after your invitation. I really enjoy reading your FAQ on the origins of the Wingate name.

I'm sure we're very distant cousins but, I haven't yet figured out which ancestor first came to the states. Both my wife and I have Winget/Wingate ancestors that have lived in the same region of North and South Carolina since the late 1700's. I haven't yet discovered where they lived before then or which ship they might have arrived on.

The majority of settlers in this part of the Carolinas where either Germans via Pennsylvania or the people we call the Scotch-Irish. Most of us are now a mixture of both.

If anybody knows how the Wingets/Wingates ended up in Wilmington, North Carolina in the early 1700's and later Rockingham, South Carolina and Mecklenburg, North Carolina in the late 1700's please drop me a line!

Scott Randolph
Charlotte, North Carolina
http://ScottRandolph.com

Edited by author 06-02-2004 19:56
Hello Scott

Thanks for your reply. Re: ancestors in America - I have to say I am curious about this Enoch WINDEATT who was transported in 1765:

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/transportation.htm

I imagine that he and possible relations could have been the progenitors of at least one of the American WINGATE/WINGET lines?

I don't know what he actually did. But there were WINDEATTs in Devon involved in the wool trade for many years so perhaps it was "unlawful exporters of wool"?

If ever I get to go down to Devon, I'll try and find out.

Regards, Sandra

My full name in Nicholas Alexander Windeatt. My Grandfather came from Totnes in Devon. He was LT Col in the Devonshire Regiment. I am one of 3 sons' of David Dowson Windeatt, currently residing in London. There are some other Windeatts' ie my cousins in and around London. We come from the Totnes tree.
Regards, Nicholas

email: nickspostbag@yahoo.co.uk

I thought I had found my branch on your Ugborough tree, but I think I was mistaken. My great grandfather was Alfred Branch Wingett b 6/24/1868 in London. His parents were William Wingett & Sarah George.
  Other information on Alfred Wingett: he emigrated to US (unknown year) and married Mary Jane Alexander on 8/15/1894.
  Other anecdotal information on William Wingett: he was a carpenter or builder of some sort and fell off a roof to his death at a young age.
  Anyway, given the spelling of my name I thought the Ugborough tree a likely avenue, and when I discovered an Albert Wingett and Sarah Bailey who had a son, Alfred William Wingett in 1873, I thought I was on the right track. That is until I found some records from the Alexander tree that provided Alfred's middle name (Branch) and the possible correction of his fathers first name (William) and his mothers maiden name (George). Any ideas?
  Also, I have some wonderful photographs of William Wingett and especially Sarah if they would be of interest to anyone.
  Thanks in advance for any assistance you may provide, and for all the obvious effort you've put into this website.

Hello Janet,

I don't think I have heard of Alfred Branch WINGETT before but I will have a little poke around and get back to you.

There are quite a few Williams around and families with building/carpenting connections (I even have a carpenter who died young of a skull fracture but he was a Charles and it was a different generation). Do you know how old your William was when he died? And do you have Alfred's birth certificate?

I would love any photos you are able to send so that I can add them to the gallery. We are very short of photos (my husband has absolutely none of his family, for example).

Sandra

Dear Janet,

                    I must apologise for the delay in replying to your messages of earlier this month.

                    I have some information which I think will help you, but before sending it want to be sure of your e/address. Having printed off the messages I deleted them, and then emptied the Deleted Items folder - during my 2 weeks' absence I had received 181 messages, 176 of them spam, and I wanted to get rid of them! It was only later, when I came to read your messages more closely, that I realised that your full e/address hadn't printed out.
                    Fortunately I had received a message from Sandra, who runs the Windeatt website, enclosing a copy of your Quick Topic message of June 11th which has the address I've used for this. If you will let me know that is has arrived safely, I will send on the information which I have for you.
                    All the best,

                    Pam Jackson.

Hello again Janet

Re Pam's message below, you can e-mail me directly at the address at the bottom of any of the other pages on this website. I don't pass on other people's e-mail addresses without permission.

However, spam is really annoying and I think I will remove our e-mail addresses from the website for this reason and keep the message board for initial contacts. Although once the spammers have your address it seems they never forget it and even sell it on to more spammers! The only option sometimes is to abandon that address and use another.

Sandra

Edited by author 30-06-2004 11:53

E-mailing us

I have made slight change to our e-mail addresses on all the other web pages. Instead of being able to click on the links to e-mail us, you now have to make a note of the address and then type it into the address line of your mail program.

This is an attempt to combat the spammers and I apologiese for the incovenience. If you get a mail delivery failure message when you do this, then please check your typing. It's very easy to make a mistake typing a mail address. Please let me know how you find this change? I may consider changing it back if people find it too annoying.

Sandra

Hi.
I'm trying to locate a village ?? called Pethybridge, this name seems to have a connection with the name "Windeatt

Pethybridge is a hamlet half a mile west of Lustleigh, South Devon. Ian Hearder.

Pethybridge is not shown on the one inch Ordnance Survey map
It might be on the two and a half inch to the mile map or the six inch to the mile.

Thanks, Ian, for finding this.

Here's the relevant Genuki page:

http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/genuki/DEV/Lustleigh/index.html

I can't actually see the hamlet on the map but the gazeteer extract mentions Pethebridge:

http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/genuki/DEV/Lustleigh/Gaz1868.html

[later] Ah - now I have found it! If you go to GET-A-MAP from the Ordinance Survey:

http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/getamap/

and click on the big greenish square button to GET-A-MAP, you can see Pethybridge if you type in Lustleigh and then, when the map appears, click on the big plus sign on the left side of the map to increase the scale. Pethybridge then appears bottom left. But I am not sure if it is the houses to the right of the name or the building on the hill to the left!

Hope this helps!

NOTE: There are WINDEATT connections with just about all of the parishes that ring Dartmoor but, certainly, this particular area of Manaton, North Bovey, Moretonhampstead was home to a branch of Windeats (spelled with one T) that we currently know little about - although there is a file in the Devon Record Office about them.

Sandra

I am very interested in knowing who Andrew Sawdye Windeat married. The 1886, December BMD Register lists that it was either Elizabeth Powlesland or Jane Tagget Price.

With many thanks for your help...

Patricia

Edited by author 01-08-2004 22:05
Hi Patricia

Looks like it was Elizabeth Powlesland - see "FILE - Marriage certificate: Andrew Sawdye Windeat and Elizabeth Powlesland, Plymouth, 2 November 1886 - ref. 3555 M-1/F 10 - date: 1886".

Type WINDEAT into the A2A search box and then click on 'Windeat of North Bovey' for details.

http://www.a2a.org.uk/default.asp

Sandra

Hi, came across this tree via a search on John Chevallier Cobbold

I see he was involved in Sarah Windeatt's will, with Sarah Edgecumbe being related to another Sarah Edgecumbe

Does anyone have the link between these two Sarah's


I have over 1900 names in my family tree, and would love to merge your's into it. Whilst I know I have a few errors in mine, you can see it's current status at:

www.bassett-smith.com


Cheers
Andrew BS

Hello Andrew,

Thanks for getting in touch. I think someone else has contacted me about this family. Unfortunately I am a bit busy at the moment (exam on October 14th!) and don't have time to trawl through all my stuff and find it.

But please remind me in a couple of weeks and I'll have a look for you. My e-mail address is on the bottom of my web pages at http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/index.htm

I couldn't get www.bassett-smith.com to open?

Sandra

Hi,
my son Henning Dietrich Helms married Katrina Srigley (born 10/17/1973 in Toronto) in Toronto this year. Her mother is a born Windeatt. It´s possible, that the Robert Windeatt named in the article about James Samuel Windeatt is a grand-grandfather of katrina. The grandfather is a Georg Windeatt, born 9/10/1911 in Mt Dennis (Ont,CA).
Katrinas mother, Penelope Windeatt, living in Maple, Ont, doesn´t know many things about the familiy. Maybe, somebody of the interested readers may know a little bit more.
So please tell me if you know anything about this part of the family Windeatt.
I´m living Mönchengladbach, Germany and English is not my motherlanguage. So please use simple words!
Hope it will be successful and thanks
Achim

Hello Joachim

It is very possible that George Windeatt, born 9/10/1911 was the son of Robert Windeatt, b.1880 in Plymouth.

If you get a copy of George's birth certificate and find that his mother was an Ellen Ann GOODMAN and his father was Robert WINDEATT then, yes, he is the 'Uncle Bob' mentioned on the page about James Samuel WINDEATT.

What did George do? His father was, at one time, a painter and decorator but he may have changed his occupation when he went to Canada.

I hope I have written clearly? Your English seems to be excellent and certainly much better than my German!

Tschuss!

Hello Sandra,
thanks for Your answer: Asking the Srigleys eg. Penelope born Windeatt they remembered Ellen Ann Goodman as mother from Georg. Visiting us in Germany they had no papers, but I hope, they will contact you soon. I´ll send you Sam Srigleys email-adress if you want to contact him.
At the wedding of Katrina in July five or six Windeatts are taken on a picture (photo). When I´ve got a copy, I´ll send one to you. So it may be interesting to look a little bit more in the past time.
In the moment I´ll give the job to Sam Srigley.

I hope, your exam was successful?
Good luck an "tschüß"
Achim

Ah great! So that is definite then!

Yes, I'd be very grateful for any photos.

Would you have any knowledge of the Windeatts marrying into the Nosworthy line? My ancestors are Nosworthy's from Staverton. I recently did a search on freeBMD and found a birth reg. for a Susanna Ann Windeat Nosworthy ( registered in Newton Abbot, Mar. quarter of 1847). Wondering if you would know of the parents? Thanks,

Anne (Nosworthy) Brooks
Canada

In the IGI, there is a record of a Susanna Windeat marrying William Nosworthy of North Bovey on 17th September 1832. So they are definitely the parents.

I don't know any more about Susanna though. From the spelling of the name (only one t) and from the location (North Bovey) she was probably from the branch of WINDEATs that lived in the North Bovey/Manaton/Chagford area of Dartmoor and were yeoman farmers - well, certainly in the nineteenth century. They are quite well documented - there is a whole set of family papers in the Devon Record Office and a lot of references to them in the A2A archives for example. BUT neither I, nor any of my contacts, have see these documents and we only have vague notions from what we have seen in census data and other indices. I suppose we are waiting for a descendant to turn up who has an interest in this family. The best we can do at the moment is a Will, see my WILLS pages:

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/wills/johnwindeat_1824.htm

and there you can see that Susanna (the mother of the one you found) is probably the same as the one mentioned as the daughter of the John who made the Will.

NOSWORTHY/NOSEWORTHY is a good old Dartmoor name (like WINDEATT) and over the years there were at leat two other marriages between WINDEATTs and NOSEWORTHYs.

Good luck with your search! Sorry I can't be of much more help.

Hi Sandra,

If you, or any of your other contacts, come across any infomation regarding WINDETT 's from the Mildenhall, Suffolk area, please can you get in touch with me as I am researching my paternal Windett line who appear to emanate from this part of the world from 1853 and before, since when they move to London.

Many thanks,

Mike Windett

Hello Mike

Can you send me your e-mail address? Mine is at the bottom of most of my web pages (although I am slowly changing this). I recently came across a whole list of WINDETTs that I had found somewhere or other.

Yes, I had noticed WINDETTs in Suffolk and Norfolk. I assume there is no connection with Devon but I could be wrong. You'll see on my 'origins' page that someone had suggested that the WINDEATTs came to Devon from Norfolk. I don't think this could be true given the number of early occurrences of the surname in Devon.

It is possible that the movement was in the other direction, i.e. from Devon to Norfolk, but my guess would be that the families are of separate origin. We could find out by doing DNA investigations but that is still too expensive to make it feasible for most of us I fear.

Sandra:

I last corresponded with you over a year ago about my ancestor Anna Wingate. The only information I have is that she had a job as governess at the home of Lord Clifford of Chudleigh, obtained through the assistance of her cousin, Charles Atkinson, and on August 15, 1780, she had a baby fathered by Hugh Clifford, the eldest son of Lord Clifford. I was not able to get any further information through contacting sources in Devon so I decided to go afield. I assumed that Lord Clifford would get someone that was educated to serve as governess, and she would very likely come from London rather than Devon. I found an Ann Wingate, born in London on 3 December 1751, the daughter of Joseph and Hanah Wingate that seems like a good bet. I also found a Charles Atkinson, born in London on 4 November 1752, the son of John and Hannah Atkinson, who could be a good bet for the helpful cousin. So I bundled up all this conjecture and speculation and sent it to the current Lord Clifford of Chudleigh asking him to check any records that he might have. He has kindly agreed to do so. So there is hope.

I hope that you have a very Merry Christmas.

Jon C. McKenzie

Edited by author 20-12-2004 16:52
Well done, Jon. This looks like good, detective work and these two do seem to be likely candidates for the cousins.

Were you able to find out any clues as to occupations for the parents of either Ann or Charles?

Atkinson is a Yorkshire name and the Cliffords had links with Yorkshire so there may be a connection there.

Even if there is no connection with the Devon WINGATEs, it is still a very interesting Devon story so do keep us updated?

Sandra:

I was not able to find anything about the occupations of Ann Wingates's parents, but I did learn that the Wingates and the Atkinsons lived in central London. Ann was christened at St. Michael Queenhithe, London, the daughter of Joseph and Hannah Wingate. The Wingates also seem to have had a younger daughter, Susannah Wingate, christened in 1753 at St. Sepulchre, London, the son of John and Ann Atkinson. Charles Atkinson was christened at Old Church, Saint Pancras, London. He seemingly had an older sister, Elizabeth Atkinson, christened at St. MIchael Queenhithe, London in 1751. I may have found the christening of Charles' father, John Atkinson in August 1712 at St. Botolph Without Aldgate, London, the son of John and Mary Atkinson, and a younger sister, Martha Atkinson, christened in September 1719 at St. Botolph Without Aldgate, London.
Still digging.

Jon

Edited by author 23-12-2004 22:06

Not so sure about "central London" but certainly in "the city" and right next to the Thames.

Here is a modern map

and here is an eighteenth century map

I wonder if they are related to Jan Hill's WINGATEs who were Thames watermen? (see message no. 2 on this list - choose ALL MESSAGES above for a complete list). I'll try and get in touch.

There are several WILLs for WINGATE surgeons etc., who lived in London by the Thames (Southwark I think). You can find them if you search the PRO records. Get back to me if you need any more advice on finding them.

Sandra

Sandra:

Thank you for the information and the maps of London. It looks as if the Wingates and the Atkinsons both lived in Queenhithe, London in 1751 and by 1752/3 had moved more into central London, assuming that St. Sepulchre is in central London, near St. Pancras.

I would appreciate any advice you can give on how to gain access to PRO records. I assume that PRO means parish record office.

Thank you.

Jon

Hello again Jon

Sorry I should have been more explicit - PRO is Public Record Office:

http://www.documentsonline.nationalarchives.gov.uk//

If you look on the left-hand side of the page you can open the FAMILY HISTORY menu and select WILLS. Then type WINGATE into LAST NAME field and you will get 31 records.

Most of these are from the Bedfordshire family who are fairly well documented and daughtered out at some point. I have some brief information about them on my origins web page:

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/origins.htm#wingate

However, Anne appears to be a family name so there could be a connection? There are two early wills:

Will of Lady Anne Wingate, Widow of Bedford, Bedfordshire 01 December 1718 PROB 11/566
Will of Anne Wingate, Spinster of Harlington, Bedfordshire 10 March 1692 PROB 11/408

and references in the Barbauld memoirs linked on my page.

The WINGATEs from Queenhithe may be connected to the people who made the following wills all of whom seemed to have lived very close to the river:

Will of William Wingate, Chirurgeon of Saint Paul Shadwell, Middlesex 1699
Will of Thomas Wingot, Mariner of Saint Paul Shadwell, Middlesex 16 December 1703
Will of John Wingate, Surgeon of Saint John Wapping, Middlesex 1711
Will of Frances Wingate, Spinster of Limehouse, Middlesex 1721
Will of Ralph Wingate of East Greenwich, Kent 1727

But they may be a bit early for your purposes?

The following two look interesting?

Will of John Wingate of Saint Marylebone , Middlesex 1794
Will of Ann Wigate, Widow of Islington, Middlesex 1792

You have to pay a fee of three pounds fifty but you can then download the will. In my experience they are sometimes quite useless naming hardly anyone else but sometimes they give quite detailed family details of relatives.

Sandra

P.S. There is a Devon link to the WINGATEs in Southwark which is the other side of the bridge from Queenhithe:

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/wills/georgewindit_1581.htm

After an absence I have relaunched my Winnett website:

http://www.geocities.com/andrewwinnett/

Oh and my new e-mail is:

andrewwinnett@yahoo.co.uk

Cheers!

Thanks Andrew! I have amended my link to your website on my origins page.

Hi, my dad (Peter Windeatt from Gravesend, kent) has done a lot of research on the windeatt family tree. sandra, i think your name has been mentioned a few times whilst he was construting the tree. I am very interested to find out what our coat-of-arms is ? Can you help ?

Edited by author 15-10-2005 03:44
Hi Geoff

Yes, your dad is the reason why I first got interested in this research and is the person who has done most of the hard work in getting all the information together.

With regards to coats-of-arms, there is not an easy answer. Well there is, I suppose, and it is : "there isn't one".

Coats-of-arms are only held by individuals not names. If someone is granted a coat-of-arms, it can be only be inherited by their direct male descendants. So, although there appear to have been one or two grants of arms to a WINGATE individual in the past (usually with some form of windygate featuring somewhere), no-one alive today can claim any of them because there are no living descendants in the direct male line (as far as I am aware). You can read all about it at the College of Arms webpage:

http://www.college-of-arms.gov.uk/Faq.htm

I have a little bit of information on my origins page:

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/origins.htm#meaning?

and I've just updated a couple of dead links.

Please pass on my regards and continued thanks to your Dad.

Sandra

Thomas White WINDEATT was a cousin of William Doidge TAUNTON. Where is the blood connection? I am linked to William Doidge Taunton and would like to fill in more of his side of the family tree, thanks.

Hello Richard, I confess that I don't know the blood connection between the WINDEATTs and the TAUNTONs. But if you find out, do let us know. I'll keep an eye out, however, in case I happen to spot anything in future. Regards, Sandra

Hi - I've just discoverd your website and thought I would leave a thank you message. I'm a descendent of George Windeatt of Meavy, and his wife Susannah Hamlyn, who died in Shaldon in 1852. I am related through the female line via their daughter Mary Hamlyn Windeatt who married James Blatchford and lived in Ipplepen. It is a very informative sight with lots of links about life in rural Devon at the time. I am fairly local - living in Bristol. I would love to know if there are other descendents of George and Sussanah around. Kind Regards Angie

Edited by author 27-10-2005 08:41
Hello Angie

How nice to hear from you! And thank you for the compliments about the site. I haven't come across any other relatives descended from George before but if someone else contacts me shortly then I won't be surprised. It is amazing how often such coincidences occur.

Susannah Hamlyn's father left a will and you might be interested in getting a copy from the Devon Record Office (details on the web page about George and Susannah). I am afraid I haven't got around to it yet so, if you do, please let me know. I confess I haven't been doing much family history in the last year and the website is full of unfinished bits and pieces . . .

Please get in touch by e-mail so that I can get your approval for anything I can add to the page about their daughter.

Regards, Sandra

Happened upon your excellent website and believe I can fill in a little.
Can't clain to be the author of this as it was on another excellent website that i can no longer find, so I hope I'm not speaking out of turn.
Mary Anne Froom was an aunt of my g-grandfather.
born 4/2/1809 one of 7 children to parents Benjamin Colsworth Froom and Elizabeth Salter m 11/10/1798.
Benjamin was a son of Benjamin and Hannah Sexton m 7/7/1743.
Hope this adds a little to your info all credit to a presently lost web site.

Edited by author 05-11-2005 10:17
Ah, thanks David. That's very helpful. It also explains the name, Benjamin, that Mary Ann gave as a second name to her son John baptised in 1835.

If it is alright with you, I will add the information to the relevant page. I'll say that it comes from a secondary source of course. Do you know any more about Benjamin and Elizabeth? Did they remain in Otterton or move to Exeter? And what was your great-grandfather's name?

Hi again David, I've added the information you gave below to the web page:

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/horrabridge/john4.htm#spouse

Let me know if it is OK? Once again, many thanks.

Hello again Angie, Just to say that I have updated the web page with the help of the details you gave about Mary Hamlyn.

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/horra.../george1.htm#child1

Thank you very much.

Looks ok to me !! If i can locate the original website i will pass it on.
My connection is via Henry Froom, Mary Ann's brother.
David

OK, thanks. I'll keep an eye out for any more likely FROOMs.

did try to mail you my take on the frooms but to no avail.
I guess Sandra@windeatt.2fs.con is old hat

sorry I'll try that again!!! Sandra@windeatt.f2s.com.

Edited by author 12-12-2005 01:14
Thanks. Updated the page again!

Hi Windeatt's etc

I was looking up my surname and found a Mrs Eugarde in a book by Rosa Praed. This is very strange as my surname is rare. I also come from the same area that Rosa lived in Queensland Australia. In the same book Windeatt has a novelist sister called Mrs Eugarde. The book is "Madame Izan". My email is "shellydonny@hotmail.com"

Hi Michelle

Yes, some interesting coincidences here! Rosa Praed must have had some reasons for choosing such unusual surnames. Perhaps she just used local names or even friends?

I confess I know little of Rosa Praed. Can you tell us any more?

And I don't even know which Windeatts were living in Queensland at the time. But there were certainly several who went out to Australia at various times. And a Windeatt from the Totnes tree wrote about Wills and Burke the ill-fated Australian explorers:

Windeatt, Thomas White. Wills, the Australian explorer / by T.W.Windeatt. - Exeter : Devonshire Assoc. , 1893. - 17p ; 22cm. - Reprinted from the Trans. Devonshire Assoc, vol 25, pp389-405. (Record no: 14362)

http://www.enchantedlearning.com/explorers.../b/burkewills.shtml

I suspect the JOhn King mentioned on the web page above was a relative of these Totnes Windeatts who married into the KING family.

Hi everyone.
I have just started to trace my tree again after a long break.I am very pleased that this excellent site is up and running,itmust have taken an enormous ammount of hard work- well done.
I have had a quick look but cannot find any of my lot although the names are very similar.
My ancestor Richard Wingett Hutchings married Anne Newman in 1814, they had a child Sarah Ann in 1818 (my line) I cannot them mentioned apart from Richard of course. Any ideas?
Thanks

Hello Andrea

I think we had some correspondence about Richard Winget HUTCHINGS before. I'm sure there must be a connection with the Horrabridge tree who intermarried with HUTCHINGS. I'll see if I can find our previous correspondence somewhere and remind myself of the details.

However, I'm sorry to report that I have got a lot of work on at the moment, and even though it is technically a Bank Holiday today, I am sadly going to have to spend all day preparing work for tomorrow! And then I'll probably be very busy at least until at least next weekend.

But don't hesitate to remind me after next weekend if you don't hear back.

Sandra

Hello Sandra
Yes we did have some correspondence, can't believe it was 5 years ago though! I have changed servers since then and lost the replies.
I also got very frustrated at that point as there were so many connections in that part of the county that I did not know where to start. It is fantastic to see what you have achieved in that time.
I have decided to start again using the info that I do have but I have noticed that I am still looking for a marriage date for the daughter Sarah Anne to my John Denning Challis. She was born in 1818 in Harbeton so I am looking from between 1834 - 1842 which is when their 1st child John was born. It even took me 6mths to find her birth date as on the birth certificates of her 11 children, it was not until the 5th certificate that she uses the name Newman, before that it was always Hutchings.
All I know about her is that her father was called Richard Wingett Hutchings, birth date? he married Peggy Farley in 1811 but she appears to have died as he married Ann Newman in 1814, again in Harbeton. Her father also called Richard Newman died ?1808, married Elizabeth Coyde in 1781 I am not sure who his father is for certain but a Richard Hutchings married a Windeat ?who. I have also found a Margaret Hutchings who married a John Wingate in 1770 but I am not sure if this is Richards sister or an aunt. I also note that a Nicholas Hutchings had a son called John in 1749 who ? died in 1757.
This is where my confusion starts!!!
I will now get all the stuff that I have collected and go back over it, have an awlful feeling that it will take over my life again, I expect you know all about that though!
Best Wishes
Andrea

 


QT - Sandra writes:

< replied-to message removed by QT >

Yes, this is beginning to ring a bell. I will try and have a look next weekend. I'm afraid I have a few tasks mounting up in a backlog. However, one good thing is that there are a lot more resources available online now than there were five years ago! Good luck.

Richard Wingett HUTCHINGS was possibly but not at all definitely the offspring of a Richard HUTCHINGS and a mother with a maiden name of WINGETT.

I have found out a bit about the Margaret Hutchings who married a John Wingate in 1770 - and this is all on my Horrabridge page:

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/horrabridge/john1.htm

Scroll down to the bit about Margaret for Hutchings stuff. It's quite possible that one of Margaret's male relatives married one of the Windeatt girls.

But this HUTCHINGS AND WINDGEAT etc family was all in Horrabridge and your folks were over in Harberton? So it could be an entirely different set of HUTCHINGS and WINGEATs?

When you have had a trawl through it all again, perhaps you could set it out with places etc.?

It's odd about your Sarah changing surnames? Are you sure it is the same person? What exactly does it say on her baptismal record (I assume it isn't actually a birth unless you got it off a tombstone?).

Andrea

There's a Richard HUTCHING (39) married to a Mary (29) and with three very young children on the 1841 census transcription on Ray Osborn's site:

http://members.bordernet.co.nz/~my4bears/H~RBE.htm

Too young to be yours but could be his son?

Ray also gives the name of the Online Parish clerk for Harberton who might be able to look up the parish registers for you?

There doesn't appear to be an OPC for Whitchurch which is where my Margaret HUTCHINS came from but you could try Deborah OBrian who is co-ordinator for the scheme and has an interest in one or two of the nearby parishes?

Hope this helps?

Sandra

Sandra:

I was blown away when I came across the reference to Emma Windeatt on your excellent site. I was looking for alternative spellings for the Windeatt name so I could work out what it said on a birth certificate I had been given by my uncle in the summer. I’m sure it’s the same Emma!

The certificate is for her son, Frank Charles Sanders (b.1879). It gives the father’s names a Samuel John Sanders and their place of residence as ‘Model Cottages, West Teignmouth’. This morning I saw the census reference lower down on the same page regarding Sarah J. Sanders.

I felt goose bumps when I saw that!

Kind regards
Alec Sanders

Hello Alec,

Thanks for getting in touch! I've just revisited my page at http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/horrabridge/john4.htm

And, yes, it rather looks as though my guess that "Sarah is Emma's daughter" is correct.

And if the Emma who married in the December quarter of 1856 in Exeter married a Samuel John Sanders, then we can be pretty sure. Do let me know if you get the marriage certificate and it turns out we are correct?

Obviously I don't know any more about 'Sanders' but we have Emma's tree back as far as 1742 (we're reasonably sure) as you can see from the web pages if you keep going back.

Good luck!

Hello again Alec

Here they are in the 1881 census - but perhaps you already knew this?

Household:

 Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
 Samuel SANDERS Head M Male 45 Exmouth, Devon, England Painter
 Emma SANDERS Wife M Female 47 Exeter
 Emma L. SANDERS Daur U Female 21 Teignmouth Domestic Servant
 John SANDERS Son Male 12 Teignmouth Scholar
 Mary A. SANDERS Daur Female 10 Teignmouth Scholar
 Frank C. SANDERS Son Male 2 Teignmouth


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
  Dwelling 25 Diamond Lane
  Census Place West Teignmouth, Devon, England
  Family History Library Film 1341520
  Public Records Office Reference RG11
  Piece / Folio 2156 / 17
  Page Number 28

Hi Sandra

Wow!

No - I didn't have any of this. I must thank you hugely. To be honest, I'm a complete novice at this, but whenever I get hold of little bits of information like this, I get very excited! I shall be adding this to the information I already have and be straight onto the phone to tell my father!!

Excepting the forementioned marriage certificate, this seems pretty conclusive evidence that Emma Windeatt and Emma Sanders are one and the same. That's amazing!

I am indebted to you, thank you again. Did you find this information online? I really do know very little about the resources available to the public for genealogical research on the internet.

Thanks again!

Edited by author 21-01-2006 20:47
Yes, I found the 1881 census information online via Family Search. If you go to my LINKS web page, you can find it there if you scroll down.

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/links.htm

When I started there wasn't very much online but I, and some other people interested in this surname, invested quite a lot of money in buying certificates. So we were able to start off piecing things together. And I keep an eye on the online sources and add bits and pieces in when I can.

But the main way I keep adding to this site is by responding to people - like yourself - who write in. I try and find out some answers and also they are usually kind enough to pass their information on. And so, if you do get Emma's marriage certificate - or any other information about her - I'd be very grateful if you could pass it on.

If you haven't been to it before, you should have a look at the GENUKI pages - especially GENUKI Devon - there's a lot of links to online information there. Again, you can find it on my Links page. I add in the ones that I find useful - especially for Devon related research.

Regards, Sandra - and do let me know what more you find out.

P.S. This family is the 'musical Windeatts' line - Emma's brother Charles and a lot of his descendants were musicians. Anything pass on down to your lot? And where did they end up living?

Hi Sandra!

That’s fascinating about the musical side, because as a family we are all musical! My grandfather (Emma’s Grandson) was multi-talented, playing in his own dance-band during WWII in Dartmouth. He played, amongst other things, piano, bass, cello and the saw! His brother, who still lives in Dartmouth, is pitch-perfect can play the piano by ear, although he cannot read music. There are other relatives (cousins and the like) who I believe still live in Dartmouth, (which is certainly regarded as the family stomping-grounds) and play in bands too. My father (Emma’s Great Grandson) and his brother were both very musical, and so are my brother and sister. I’ve played in various bands in the past, but no longer do so.

Now the really weird thing is – and this is partly what got me into all this – is that my father’s mother was also extremely musical, and although she obviously had a different maiden name, her grandfather was also a Sanders…

Kind Regards
Alec Sanders

Hello again, Sandra

I’ve just spoken to my father and told him of the musical connection, and he told me that Frank Charles Sanders, Emma’s son, was also extremely musical. He apparently was well-known for playing the banjo. He regularly played in the music-hall; and it was Frank that encouraged my grandfather to play!

Kind regards
Alec Sanders

Interesting . . .

I have been putting together bits and pieces from what I can find out about about Emma's brother, Charles, and his two sons.:

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/horrabridge/charles.htm

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/horrabridge/corelli.htm

also there's a little bit here:

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/people.htm#musical

I was doing quite well with this tree in the early part of last year but then work and retirement plans took over (I still haven't retired but live in hope) and I stopped working on family history while I was in the middle of these particular pages. I'm not quite sure when I will be able to get back to it but not in the immediate future.

However, if/when you find out a bit more about Emma - I'd be grateful if you could send me something I can add to her details - as you have seen, there isn't much there about her at the moment.

Sandra

Edited by author 22-01-2006 15:33
1891 Census

Emma must have died between 1881-1891 because Samuel is living as a boarder in the Beehive Inn in West Teignmouth:

 Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
     
SANDERS Samuel Boardr W M 56 Painter(Em'ee) Devon - Exmouth
 
I don't know where Frank is . . . there is a 13 year-old Frank working in Silverton as a yard boy but he gives his birth place as Silverton which doesn't fit.

The elder brother, John, though is following father's footsteps as a painter and plumber and living in East Teignmouth.

This was from a search on the FREECEN site.

Edited by author 22-01-2006 15:40
This is from the 1861 - living in West Teignmouth

    Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
    SANDERS Samuel Husbnd M M 25 Painter Devon - Exmouth
    SANDERS Emma Wife M F 26 Devon - Exeter
    SANDERS Emma Louisa Dau - F 19m Devon - Teignmouth

Hi Sandra

Many thanks again for this. Once more – this is all new to me. I immediately repeated the search you did at FREECEN, and spent most the afternoon trying as many different searches as I could think of!

It looks like the information you found is the best that is currently online, although there is reference to Emma and Samuel’s marriage certificate held at Exeter. It looks like that is the way to go, so I’m going to find out about getting hold of that, and when I do, I will gladly share any data unearthed will you.

I think until then, I’ve come to a halt. There are all kinds of tantalising hints in the records at FREECEN, but I suppose the only way to make real connections is to get the certificates. I’ll let you know when, and if, I find anything more about Emma.

Kind regards
Alec Sanders

Forgot to say:

you were right about Emma's death between 1881-1891. At FREEBMD, it looks like she dies aged 52 in 1886, in either October, November or December.

Dear Sandra - I just discovered this website yesterday and am most interested. My husband is a Blatchford. He descends from Samuel Blatchford, b. 1 Aug. 1767 in Plymouth Dock, Devonshire, who m. Alicia Windeat, b. 19 Nov. 1767 in Bridgetown, Totnes. They were married at Berry Pomeroy Church 25 March 1788. He was a Presbyterian minister and served in chuches in Kingsbridge, Ford and Topsham before they emigrated to America in 1795 and settled in Lansingburg, NY. If you have access to HeritageQuest Online, there are well-documented books and I would suggest especially "Blatchford Memorial II" by Eliphalet Wickes Blatchford.
I noted on your site under "Will of Samuel Windeatt...Family..."Aunt Amery" in 1863 speculated that Sarah (Thomas, Samuel) m. Samuel Blatchford but I do believe this is an error, as you will see from "Blatchford Memorial."
We visited the area a few years ago searching for churches and possible burying places of family members but only found one sign (at church ruins in Ford)of his association with Rev. William Evans. We anticpate another brief visit at the end of April and hope to find more information. Meanwhile, your Windeatt site has given us a lot of interest and we are grateful for it. Thank you. Judith Blachford (jahblatchford@aol.com)

Thanks for this - just off on holiday - will reply after my
return. Thanks again, Sandra


On 25 Mar 2006 at 4:56, QuickTopic daily digest wrote:


Sandra Windeatt
e-mail: windeatt@f2s.com
< replied-to message removed by QT >

Hello Judith

Yes, you are quite right and I have to confess that the mistake you mention is all mine and not Aunt Amery's. I must have muddled typing out the tree somehow - I do have the correct version on this page:

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/wills/sarahwindeatt_1828.htm

I'll correct the erroneous one shortly. Thanks very much for pointing it out.

There is a lot more information that I need to add . . . when I have time.

Regards, Sandra

Sandra,
 
Thanks for your note. Hope your holiday was enjoyable. I had missed the reference under the "Will of Sarah..." - no need to apologize. A project like this never ends! I was surprised to see the name Hammond (as witnesses) - it is my maiden name although I believe my ancestors emigrated from London in the 1630s .
 
In late May (not April) we are visiting (all too hastily) Totnes, Kingsbridge, Ford, and Topsham following the history of our Blatchford/Windeatt ancestors. It will be more meaningful having gleaned so much information from your site.
 
I wonder if anyone knows the address today of what was the old Presbyterian Chapel in Topsham, later known as the Topsham Unitarian Chapel. Three of the Rev. Samuel and Alicia Windeatt Blatchford's children died very young and were, according to Samuel's autobiography, "buried in a vault under the communion table in the meeting house." They did have many children - 17 to be exact, but many did not live long.
 
In the book Blatchford Memorial II there is an old photograph of the "House of Samuel Windeatt, Bridgetown, Totnes, Devonshire, England" - date unknown but when it appears to still be a private residence. Also there are three "likenesses" of Alicia Windeatt Blatchford - as a young lady, a middle-aged woman, and "as widow." If you would like a photocopy of these, I would be happy to send them along.
 
Thank you once again,
Judy

Yes, thanks, a super week in Rome.

With regards to the location of the chapel in Topsham - there is some information but not an address unfortunately on the Genuki page for Topsham:

http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/Topsham/index.html

However, if you post a message to the Devon Mailing List I am sure someone will know the answer. There is a link to the list and how to subscribe (if you have not already joined it) on my links page:

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/links.htm#devon

As far as Samuel Windeatt's house is concerned - I have a modern photo of what we think is the same house here:

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/totnes-house.htm

It is just across the river from Totnes in Bridgetown.

And, even better news, a kind correspondent has recently alerted me to the fact that Samuel's will has now turned up in Totnes Museum and I have just arranged for them to send me a copy. So watch this space for a transcription which I hope I will be able to post here in a month or so.

You will probably want to visit the Totnes museum on your trip:

http://homepages.phonecoop.coop/waltking/s...re/study_centre.htm

All the best for your visit. Do keep in touch and let me know how you get on and what you find out. I have realised in replying to you that my pages on this branch of the family are a bit of a mess so, sometime, I must gather all the data together and rewrite and organise it.

Regards,

Sandra

Hello,

I was doing research for fun and came across accounts of Orde Charles Wingate and his rather colorful career and character. What really got me interested, however, was his picture. My brother, Jared, is a spittin' image of him....its almost scary.

I come from a branch of Wingates which I believe can trace our ancestry back to the 1600's in the New World, Virginia, U.S., however, the link to the Scottish/English ancestry, although believed to be there, has not been developed.

If there is any help available, or if anyone has any thoughts on this it would be VERY much appreciated. I would like to trace both Orde's and my own back to the 1500's in England to see if there is any bloodline relationship.

Thanks,

Neil Wingate - Omaha, Nebraska, United States
email - nrwingate@hotmail.com (I'm not sure about suffixes for country?)

Hello Neil

This is an interesting one! I confess I have no idea of the relationship between the Scottish WINGATEs and any other branch. I did once come across a WINDGEATT record in Glasgow at some very early point in time which did make me wonder about an original Scottish branch.

However, if you have photos of (a) your brother and (b) Orde Charles then I would be happy to post them on a page on the website with a request for any info to be passed on to us? Your brother's photo could just be described as something anonymous like "current WINGATE family member". It might be worth a try and someone may come across some links.

DNA testing would give you a good idea whether your two branches are related or not but you would have to find a male descendant of the other family still alive and willing to be tested and, for all kinds of reasons, not everyone is happy to do that. It's also quite expensive.

However, family likenesses are often quite telling . . . I think that Mark WINGETT (an English actor) looks just like this old portrait of Thomas WINGETT:

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/families/thomas_wingett.htm

However, we haven't found the family history to support a link yet.

Regards, Sandra


There are some links to photos of the actor on the page.

I will take a picture of him this weekend (I'm trying to find an outfit to match Orde's photos)

Considering Orde's history, I wouldn't think it would be hard to at least trace him back. I have been able to go back four or five generations on him already, now if I can just dig a little deeper.

I wish I could take a month and just go to England myself, I'd like to visit there anyway....but that may be while.

Thanks,

Neil

Good luck! Keep in touch. P.S. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help - although I confess I don't have much time at the moment.

Edited by author 18-04-2006 22:32
Scottish WINGATES

As part of National Library Week there is free access to lots of databases this month:

http://access.gale.com/nlw2006/portal.html

There is an awful lot there but I came across one document which is all about a John WINGATE and others in Glasgow - published 1798 - detailing some religious arguments if I understand correctly. This may be of interest to someone?

http://galenet.galegroup.com/servlet/ECCO?...dc=tiPG&d4=0.5&n=10

Dear Sir/Madam

With reference to the message 'Will of Thomas WINDED of Torquay, Yeoman-1818 '. Just wondering if you had any follow-up to this posting on your family history messages. Edward and Susanna Bedlake are my great, great,great grandparents and only by doing a 'google' search did I spot this article on your website. The other interesting sentence in your article was the comment that 'a Thomas Winded married a Susanna Bickford on 25/12/1778 in Tormohun '. The name Bickford is a forename of one of our ancesters which we have had difficulties in tracing a connection. It does seem to much of a coincidence to have all coming together.
The only problem we have is that we can find no trace of a Thomas Winded on any of the Ancestry searches so far and just wondered if any further information had been received by yourselves on this matter.
Thanking you in anticipation.
Regards

Geoffrey Williams

Edited by author 26-05-2006 20:35
Hello Geoffrey

This is one of those records where I don't know very much more I'm afraid. I bought the copy of the will because I thought he might be a WINDEATT that had been mistranscribed (this frequently happens). However, the copy of the will definitely says WINDED - although it is *a copy* so it is just possible there is a mistranscription there. Or he could even have spelled his name that way (people were very haphazard about spelling in those days).

I haven't been able to definitely identify him as any recognisable WINDEATT/WINGETT/WINGATE. However, a Thomas WINDEATT of Torquay, aged 88, was buried on 24th February 1818 at St. Marychurch, Torquay and this could well be him. The date of death is given (by Susanna BEDLAKE) as 20th February 1818 and four days sounds about right for the subsequent burial.

It looks as though Susannah BEDLAKE, Edward's wife, ought to be his daughter - but he doesn't actually say that - which is strange.

The information about the marriages to Rebecca READAWAY and Susannah BICKFORD comes from the Devon Family History Society marriage index - and again could be mistranscribed. I haven't seen the originals but you can purchase photocopies of the relevant register pages quite cheaply from the Devon Record Office.

I'm afraid I don't know anything about Ancestry searches. I was under the impression that they only covered the censuses and, of course, Thomas died long before the first census so you wouldn't find him there anyway. But maybe Ancestry cover earlier records? I'm afraid I don't know so would be grateful if you could tell me. Do they go back earlier than that?

However, if you have BICKFORD appearing as a middle name amongst descendants of Edward and Susanna BEDLAKE then I think that would be a good clue that perhaps this Thomas had married Susannah BICKFORD and his daughter then married EDWARD BEDLAKE. But, I can't say I have found any births or marriages which confirm this.

I'll keep an eye out though for BEDLAKES and BICKFORDS in the area and let you know if/when I come across anything.

Regards, Sandra

Hello Sandra
Many thanks for your reply. I think you are quite likely to be on the right track with your comments. The Bickford connection is particulary interesting because Edward Bedlake's wife according to the Will is called Susanna and they had a daughter Susan (or Susanna). Our family tree has Edwards daughter Susan marrying my 3rd great grandfather Nicholas Prowse and one of their sons was called Bickford Prowse. My 2nd great grandfather was Nicholas Prowse who was Bickfords brother and obviously named after his father. The latter Nicholas (my 2nd gt. grandfather) Was a Master Mariner (Captain) and was involved with Brunel on the ship the 'Great Eastern'. In fact practically all the sons were Master Mariners.
I will try and do some research on your very feasible suggestion regarding the possible Windeatt/Bickford connection. You never know it may put a couple more families on the tree !.
Many thanks again Sandra, I'll let you know if I get anything positive.
Regards
Geoff

Hello again Geoffrey,

I've been having a think about this and, if the Thomas WINDED who died on 10/2/1818, is the same person as the Thomas WINDEATT who was buried four days later then he would have been born in about 1730 (although ages given after death are always a bit suspect).

So I'm wondering about other ages. Do you know roughly when either of your Susans was born? I did wonder if Thomas could have been a grandfather of Susanna BEDLAKE rather than a father but that wouldn't fit with the marriage to Rebecca READAWAY - but then again, that could be quite a different Thomas.

It could also be that Susanna BEDLAKE is a niece or cousin or something rather than a direct descendant. Annoying that he doesn't specify the relationship - although I don't think that necessarily means they weren't related. I've found that quite a few executors on the wills I have were related (usually in-laws) even though that wasn't actually specified in the will.

I'll keep this one in mind for a bit and see if I can find out any more.

Regards, Sandra

I was inspired to put up a new page on Dartmouth records:

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/parish/dartmouth.htm#tree

The Thomas of 1818 will could be the one baptised there in 1729.

Hi again Sandra
The info. I have gives Edward Bedlake's birth date at around 1771 in Devon. His daughter Susan/Susanna Bedlake was born in 1803 in Torquay. I have no birth info. with regard to Edwards wife Susanna Bedlake, but possibly +/_ a few years of Edwards.
Geoff

Hi yet again Sandra
Just had a thought that the likliest connection if any, seems to be the marriage of Thomas Winded/Windeatt to Susanna Bickford on 25/12/1778 in Torquay, due to the Bickford forename connection further down the tree.
Geoff

Yes, if Susan was only 14 or 15 when he made the will, then there was time for him (or his son, say,) to have married Susanna BICKFORD and to have had a daughter Susanna (later BEDLAKE) in time for her to have had a daughter in 1803. Do you know when your Edward and Susanna married?

According to the DFHS printout there are some accompanying notes on this register entry. So it's probably worth your writing to the DRO and getting a photocopy of the entry. It may say little but it could say that he was a widower for example.

Sandra

Here's a nice picture of Torquay in 1780 from Terry Leaman's Torquay site:

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/terryleaman/Tis...ges/strand_1780.jpg

Looks a bit different now!

Sandra
We obtained the connection that Edward Bedlake was the father of Susan Bedlake from the Devon Record Office. They also confirmed that the same Susan married Nicholas Prowse (b. 1796) in Tormorham in 1822. The information that Edward Bedlake was married to Susanna Bedlake was actually taken from the information provided on 'The Will of Thomas Winded' on your website so I have no idea of her birth or marriage date unfortunately.
Geoff

FOR MATT MEYER

Matt, could you get in touch via eMail. I may have some news for you.

Regards, Sandra.

Edited by author 09-07-2006 16:39
To Sandra
I haven't been in touch because I've messed up my e-mail connection. Hopefully I'll get it sorted out soon. I've only just realised I can use this!

Hi Lyn

That's ok - been away/busy myself. Will also be in touch shortly. Regards, Sandra.

Hello,
I saw your website after I began researching my family tree and I have found it very useful. I looked on the births page and saw some names I recognised such as Hedley Harry and Hedley Ernest Windeatt.
I’ve had trouble getting any further back than Hedley Harry Windeatt because I can’t find his parents.
But I do have some information about them such as places of birth, marriages and children and wondered if you would like me to send you it?
 
Great Site,
Isabel (izzy_140@hotmail.com)

Hello Isabel

Yes, please, do send me on any information you have, I'm always grateful for more news.

According to the copy of a tree I have, which was compiled by a number of researchers, and is the one we call the TORQUAY tree, Hedley Harry was born in Westminster in 1867(?) and his parents were William Henry and Sarah Annie (DISCOMBE) - although I am not sure about this now I look at it because he seems to have been born in 1867 and they married in 1872.

If Hedley Harry's father was William Henry then his grandfather was the John WINGET who married Maria DAVEY in 1845. This John was the eldest son of Robert the top of that tree - See the little bit that I put on the web:

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/tree-torquay.htm

There has always been a bit of a mystery about this particular branch of the family. I have some bits and pieces of information and I'll eMail you with what I have. It's great that someone from this line has got in touch as we have always wondered exactly what happened with these folks - especially with Maria DAVEY - so it will be great if you are able to find out a bit more.

Regards, Sandra

Edited by author 07-11-2006 12:28
HI Sandra, I just wondered if you had anymore info on Richard Windiatte who married Allicia Hartford 1665 Ugbourough Their daughter Sarah married William
Fox 1689 Any info would be great. Thanks ...Ann

LUCINDA WINGET married Emanuel ULRY on 22June, 1856 in Adams Co, Illinois. Lucinda WINGET's father was LUTHER WINGET who married Pheby RUDE and Luther's father (Lucinda's paternal grand-father) was CALEB WINGET born 1744 Morris Co, New Jersey, died 1817 in Washington Co, Pennsylvania.

Lucinda WINGET had at least 1 child by Emanual ULRY, named James Buchanan ULRY. James married Carrie Emma HANKINS.

Anyone knowing ANYTHING ELSE or....having a PICTURE OF??? Lucinda WINGET(or know of/have pix of, any OTHER of my WINGETs!! --please contact me directly, at..... <dimari_> at (ie- @ ) <hotmail.com> .....thanks ever so much!

Take Care,

Diane M. Spencer (Lucinda WINGET's great-great granddaughter!!)

Apologies for neglecting this message board recently. I'm afraid I don't know very much about records before 1837 (when it starts to get very difficult). Although I am, with lots of help from other researchers, piecing together a few things.

Diane, unfortunately I know very little about American families with this surname. However, my observations would be that it is most unusual to have a gap of 112 years between grandparent and grandson - usually it's more like forty to fifty years. It's not impossible (my own grandfather was born 77 years before me) but it *is* very unusual. Are you sure of your dates?

Ann, again unfortunately there isn't much information on anyone this far back. There are quite a few Richard WINDEATTs around and lots of WINDEATTs in Ughborough so it is a bit like the proverbial needle in the haystack. However, if I do come across anything I will try and remember to post it here.

Sorry I can't be of much more help presently.

Cheers, Sandra

Hello Sandra, Thank you for your e.mail - a kind lady called Miss J Bennett gave me your contacts, but I was waiting for her info until I contacted you to tie in with what I already have. I am happy to say with what I have from her ( she sent me her info from when she was in contact with you in 1999 ), what I gathered from google (just putting in Agnes Weston, then John Bayly ) brought up loads of info from Plymouth data.info - so - I was going to write you when I had sorted things properly, but I can tell you definitely on my mothers mothers side of the family Elizabeth Windeatt is my Great x 3 Grandmother. How excited I was !! John & Elizabeths' daughter Marianne (Gtx2 Grandmother) married Karl Ludwig Christoph DAMMANN 4th July 1861 at The Parish Church in the Parish of Sutton on Plym. Their son Karl Adolph Dammann married Florence Mary LAUEZZARI on 22nd April 1892 they had 3 children, Burges (named after Richard Rundle Burges ) Horace, and my Grandmother June Marjorie Burges Daman - here they English Daman rather than the German DAMMANN - why I do not know my Aunt thinks something to do with war !!?
I would love to know where John and Elizabeth lived - on one of the census he was away from home I believe - all the info I know have hopefully I can start a proper tree. If you would like a copy of the Marriage certificates of Elizabeth & John, Marianne & Karl please let me know, I'll be happy to send them to you. Bye for now & thanks again, Marcia

You have probably already found my page:

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/wills...aswindeatt_1850.htm

which shows Elizabeth BAYLY being the daughter (and apparently chief beneficiary) of her father's will (rather badly transcribed by me). I may try having another go at it.

There are other BAYLY connections and you should have a look on the A2A pages. Plymouth and West Devon Record Office has a file of 100s of BAYLY documents and if you can either go there or bear to spend the money on the photocopies, I am sure you will find out masses and masses!

I will be in touch.

Sandra

Hello Sandra, No I hadn't found it and thankyou very much - very interesting. What are A2A pages and where do I find them ? This is all very new to me, but many thanks, Marcia

Edited by author 28-11-2006 20:36
Hello again Marcia

A2A is the UK archives search site. There is a link to it on my links page in the Databases section (Go to HOME and then Links bottom right).

When you get there select the SEARCH THESE CATALOGUES link and then type BAYLY or BAYLEY into the Keywords box and choose PLYMOUTH AND WEST DEVON RECORD OFFICE from the drop down Location of Archives box below it and then select the red SEARCH button to the right of the Keywords box. You will get 66 catalogues returned (three pages). Each catalogue contains several files! This should keep you busy for a while!

To look at the catalogues in more detail, first select the HITS number in the extreme right-hand column and then you will get a list of all the files in that particular catalogue. You can choose CATALOGUE IN FULL from the top of that page and you will receive even more detail. Scroll down the page and you can then identify the files that might be of interest and, if so, you can ask the PWDRO to prepare you a quote for photocopying. It's not necessarily always worth getting a photocopy because sometimes it may not contain any more information than is in the catalogue. I believe you can ask the office for advice.

By the way I also searched for BAYLY and DAMAN in the keywords box and there isn't very much - just a reference to a 'John Frederick Karl DAMAN' who was the beneficiary of John BAYLY's will in the early part of the twentieth century.

When you have exhausted the Plymouth records you should do the same search in the Devon Record Office - there are 62 catalogues there too. Not necessarily all about your particular family of course.

All the best and don't hesitate to ask again if you need any more tips or advice on searching,

Sandra

---

Many thanks Sandra - yes, it will keep me busy for a long time !!!
I'm not retired yet so you may not hear from me for while, so, Happy Christmas and Healthy 2007 ! Marcia

There is a Corelli BERE , mentionned as an organist still living in 1876 in an appeal in favor of Charles Spackman BARKER (BATH 1804- MAIDSTONE 1879)inventor and organbuilder, in the Musical Times 1876,(p.607). I guess he was quite wellknown in those years since the other names are quite famous in musical circles

Many thanks Philippe.

As a result of your information I'm now sure Corelli E. Bere WINDEATT was called after the Corelli BERE you mention. His father Charles WINDEATT must have called him after the organist. (see my web page about him http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/horrabridge/corelli.htm#name)

I'll update the web page with this information - thanks again!

Sandra

Many thanks
I think that this guy known also under the name of "A.C.C. BERE" (probably Angelo Corelli C....BERE )was organist of the prestigious chuch of St Peter, Eaton Square in London.
see also under the name of Beer (there is a mistake)
http://www.duresme.org.uk/BIOS/h&r_subs.htm
for further information you can contact:
rdhird@yahoo.co.uk
 He might have been quite wealthy since his wife (or widow) collected paintings :
http://columbus.iit.edu/od/od-us-oil.html
(see number 167)

Ah - thanks again. Perhaps Corelli BERE even sponsored young Corelli WINDEATT who was at a small school in London in 1881? I wondered how that happened. Sandra

Hi Sandra,

Since we last mailed and you created the 'Mariners' tree in 'Families' my father has died. However before he did he said he had seen an old family tree linking the name to Sir Francis Drake. Given the Plymouth link have you heard of a possible connection with the name before?

Regards

Mike

Edited by author 21-04-2007 18:28
Sorry to hear about your father. How old was he? My sympathies.

The only connection with DRAKE that I have come across was a listing on the IGI which has an Elisabeth DRAKE marrying an Edward WINDYET in Buckland Monachorum in 1726. I traced my husband's family back to that area as far as 1742 so I was interested in those records but I didn't find any corroborative evidence of such a marriage. Other lists of Buckland records don't appear to include it.

The record is here:

<http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/IGI...on=2&frompage=99>;

There is also a DRAKE website:

http://www.xroyvision.com.au/drake/drakepage.htm

which I also explored some time ago but didn't find anything there either.

DRAKE is a common Devon surname so, even if it is an actual marriage, it doesn't tell us very much. Nice thought though . . . and possibly someone might be able to find out more at some time.

I feel a bit intrudish here. I was looking for church records of the Horrabridge Methodist Church. My grandfather,William Jessop Winter was minister there around1900. My father Reginald P Winter was born and brought up in the village, born 1908. Anyhow thats how i came across ur site. Maybe he new some of ur relations who knows? Cheers

Hello Derek

Have you tried Genuki Devon? Or the Devon Mailing list? There are a lot of very knowledgeable people on the Devon list and if you join and ask your question there, you will probably get an answer. You can find the relevant links on my page:

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/links.htm#devon

Good luck, Sandra

Edited by author 29-05-2007 07:26
Hi I am descended from winnetts and they were known in France as Vinet are you from this line. They were French Hugenots. I am in Australia now, but was born in England. Linda Bushell-nee Killick,Mum was a Frewing,her mum a winnett.Vera Forence Beatrice Born about 1905(sorry just moved all my papers are in boxes). Love to here from anyone else related.My fathers line is Dettmar and Killick.

Hi my family are from Scotland originally, may be related to some of you!

I got hold a 19th century CDV photograph off eBay today and the photographer is listed as:

C.A. Windeatt
The Weston Studio
Waterloo Road
Weston Super Mare

I believe Corelli Windeatt and his band took up residence on Weston Super Mare pier a few years later.

Very interesting! I'll look into it when I can - currently walking across France. A bientot.

Would you have any idea if you were related to Orde Wingate of WWII fame?
thanks,

Neil


>From: QT - Gemma Wingate-Bishop <qtopic+12-dPAvCykE9uBCE@quicktopic.com>
>Reply-To: QT topic 12-dPAvCykE9uBCE
><qtopic+12-dPAvCykE9uBCE@quicktopic.com>
>To: QT topic subscribers <qtopic+subs@quicktopic.com>
>Subject: WINDEATT/WINGET/WINGATE family history
>Date: Thur, 14 Jun 2007 13:48:26 GMT
>

_________________________________________________________________ Hotmail to go? Get your Hotmail, news, sports and much more!
http://mobile.msn.com
< replied-to message removed by QT >

My mother is Anne Kew, formerley Windeatt. I have been researching our family tree and I am particularly interested in my Mother's uncle, Louis Windeatt who was killed in 1918 while serving in the Royal Fusiliers. I've found out quite a bit of info about where and how he died and where he is buried and I know that this is a long shot but does anyone have any letters or correspondence that he may have sent home? Any help gratefully recieved.

My father is Louis Arthur Windeatt, only son of the late Arthur Alan Windeatt, and is the nephew of Louis Vernon Windeatt who died in the First World War. So I am assuming that my father is a cousin of Anne Kew. Hi!

We are under the impression that Louis Vernon was gassed and was
medically retired from the Great War. But as a musician he went back to entertain the troops and his party received a fatal hit, possibly on a train. We would be very interested in any information about what
happened to Louis Vernon.

We know of no correspondence received from Louis Vernon during the War. There is a photograph of Louis Vernon and Arthur Alan in their army uniforms which I might be able to locate. I understand they were very close.

Arthur Alan played in Corelli Windeatt's jazz bands, possibly Louis did. Arthur was based at the Royal Artillery at Woolwich Arsenal during the Great War and visited the area just before he died in 1986.

Louis Vernon's name is on the First World War Memorial in Kingston upon Thames town centre and St Paul's Church in Park Road, Kingston.

Cheers, Phil

--------------------------------------------------------

ITV plc (Registration No. 4967001)
"ITV" is incorporated in England and Wales with its registered office at 200 Grays Inn Road, London WC1X 8HF.
Please visit the official ITV website at www.itv.com for the latest company news.
The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may contain privileged or copyright information. If you have received this email and you are not the intended recipient please notify postmaster@itv.com and delete this email and you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this email are strictly prohibited.
Although ITV routinely screens for viruses, recipients should scan this email and any attachments for viruses. ITV does not certify that this email or any of its attachments is free of viruses or defects. ITV reserves the right to monitor all e mails and the systems upon which such e mails are stored or circulated.
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ITV.
Please consider the environment before printing this email.
Thank You.
--------------------------------------------------------
< replied-to message removed by QT >

Edited by author 01-10-2007 20:26
That's really interesting Phil. Thank you. My mother told me a story that he had been killed while playing the piano so it kind of fits in with what you are saying. I went to the PRO a few years ago to look at the Battalion records for the 4th Battalion who he was listed as being with. For the date that he was killed it stated that the Barracks at Vendin Les Bethune was heavily shelled and 4 other ranks killed (of which I assume Louis was one) and 24 injured. I had assumed that he was still a front line soldier and that maybe the story of him being killed while playing music had been embellished due to him being in barracks at the time of his death. Someone on this site had traced his army record (under the name Windcatt) and that he had joined in 1915 and gone to the Dardanelles.
Any idea where he went between then and the circumstances of him being gassed and medically discharged?
Arthur Alan and Corelli are both mentioned in an article announcing the death of Louis in the Surrey Comet at the end of May 1918. I also beieve that there is a Scout hut in Kingston which has a seat in his memory due to him being a former member of the troop.

I am sure that my mother has photos of Louis at home on leave and I have a pencil drawing of Louis done by my Grandfather who was Louis's younger brother. Louis is buried in the Sandpits Cemetery which is very near Vendin Les Bethune and again led me to believe that he was one of the four killed at the barracks. Do you have any idea where the train story came from? Never heard that before!
Thanks for your help. If there's anything that I can help you with then please let me know.

Alex

Hello everyone

I'm now back from my long walk although I'm afraid family history is still a long way down my 'to do' list. However, I will try and make time to finish the pages on the 'musical windeatts' which I started some time ago and which lists such details as I had then

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/horrabridge/corelli.htm

With regards to Louis, perhaps the medal card might provide some more information? Or the death certificate? You can order both of these online but it does cost a few quid.

Do either of you (Alex or Phil) happen to know know if I have identified Corelli correctly on that photo at the top of the page?

If anyone has any photos, drawings or other information that you are willing to share on these pages, I would be very pleased to receive them. I'm particularly keen on improving the supply of pictures because we have very few at present (- see my Gallery pages - http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/gallery/gallery.htm). The Horrabridge Windeatts were a fertile branch so there are always new descendants turning up who are interested in their ancestors . . .

Hi Sandra,

Good to hear from you. My Mum and Dad picked up a photocopy of the Corelli Windeatt band from Weston Super Mare Library when they were on holiday down there a couple of years ago. That library might be useful resource for all things Windeatt. We think you have identified Corelli correctly. My Dad thought Alf Windeatt (Arthur Louis's Dad) might well be in that photo. Didn't he go off to Newport in South Wales, play rugby union for Newport RFC and marry a Jewish woman Hetty King and start up a wet fish business? Anyway that's my Dad's story!

Cheers, Phil

--------------------------------------------------------

ITV plc (Registration No. 4967001)
"ITV" is incorporated in England and Wales with its registered office at 200 Grays Inn Road, London WC1X 8HF.
Please visit the official ITV website at www.itv.com for the latest company news.
The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may contain privileged or copyright information. If you have received this email and you are not the intended recipient please notify postmaster@itv.com and delete this email and you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this email are strictly prohibited.
Although ITV routinely screens for viruses, recipients should scan this email and any attachments for viruses. ITV does not certify that this email or any of its attachments is free of viruses or defects. ITV reserves the right to monitor all e mails and the systems upon which such e mails are stored or circulated.
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ITV.
Please consider the environment before printing this email.
Thank You.
--------------------------------------------------------
< replied-to message removed by QT >

Hi Alex,

I've just had a word with my Dad (Louis Arthur) and he knows nothing more than Louis Vernon was killed in France so your email was
fascinating. His Dad Arthur Alan was a very reserved man and spoke rarely about his past (he was born in central London for instance) but I do understand was close to Louis Vernon. He was deeply affected by his awful experiences in the Great War. He was sensitive, a man who sketched and painted at home, but I understand that he was punished severely by the army, possibly tied to a gun overnight while serving in France. He did have a temper. He always seemed to me an intelligent man that life had conspired to do down, he was a lovely grandfather though and I remember many occasions watching Kingstonian Football Club with him way back in the 1960's but his home life was tough. He worked in a factory in Mitcham for many years manufacturing perfume. Always road a bicycle right until his eighties and I often saw him flying around the one way system in Kingston during my youth.

Now Alf, Arthur Alan's Dad, also played in Corelli Windeatt's bands (he played at my Mum and Dad's wedding reception). My Dad tells me that that Alf went over to Newport in South Wales, played rugby for Newport RFC and married a Jewish woman born in the USA Hetty King and they started a wet fish business! That's the story anyway. We now think Hetty and Corelli's widow were company for one another in their old age.

We would love to see the Comet article announcing Louis death. I still write Kingstonian match reports for the Comet.

Cheers, Phil

  

--------------------------------------------------------

ITV plc (Registration No. 4967001)
"ITV" is incorporated in England and Wales with its registered office at 200 Grays Inn Road, London WC1X 8HF.
Please visit the official ITV website at www.itv.com for the latest company news.
The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may contain privileged or copyright information. If you have received this email and you are not the intended recipient please notify postmaster@itv.com and delete this email and you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this email are strictly prohibited.
Although ITV routinely screens for viruses, recipients should scan this email and any attachments for viruses. ITV does not certify that this email or any of its attachments is free of viruses or defects. ITV reserves the right to monitor all e mails and the systems upon which such e mails are stored or circulated.
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ITV.
Please consider the environment before printing this email.
Thank You.
--------------------------------------------------------
< replied-to message removed by QT >

Thanks Phil. I've seen your reports in the paper and assumed you must be related somehow! I'm going to try to catch up with my mother over the next couple of weeks so I'll try to get some more photos. I'm sure that I have seen a photo of a large group of the family and it looks like they are in the back garden of the house where my mother grew up and Louis was in the centre. Presumably on leave. Unfortunately, my grandfather, Charles Windeatt died when I was only 10 / 11 years of age so I never asked him the questions that I would now love to ask!

I have a photocopy of the article in the Surey Comet which I can send to you, or I'm happy to type it out on here. Let me know. If you want to see the original you can go to the old Tiffin Girls' School building which now houses the old archives. The date of the article was around May 25th 1918 and it is on microfiche. I did not do any more searching through later papers but there might be more. Maybe when I've got some more info I'd be happy to show you what I have.

Alex

Hi Alex,

I would be very interested in all your materials so perhaps you can send us photocopies to give us some idea. When my Mum and Dad see them they will be able to assist with identification. I met Charlie a couple of times when I was a teenager as well.

Do you have a personal email address so I can send my mail address?
Cheers, Phil

--------------------------------------------------------

ITV plc (Registration No. 4967001)
"ITV" is incorporated in England and Wales with its registered office at 200 Grays Inn Road, London WC1X 8HF.
Please visit the official ITV website at www.itv.com for the latest company news.
The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may contain privileged or copyright information. If you have received this email and you are not the intended recipient please notify postmaster@itv.com and delete this email and you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this email are strictly prohibited.
Although ITV routinely screens for viruses, recipients should scan this email and any attachments for viruses. ITV does not certify that this email or any of its attachments is free of viruses or defects. ITV reserves the right to monitor all e mails and the systems upon which such e mails are stored or circulated.
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ITV.
Please consider the environment before printing this email.
Thank You.
--------------------------------------------------------
< replied-to message removed by QT >

Phil,


alexkew@btinternet.com,

Regards,
Alex

On the 1841 census of Tormoham (299/10/32) a Thomas Windeatt aged 14 is listed as living with my gx2 grandfather George Turner who was jeweller in Torquay. The adress is Lower Union Street.
Do you know if he was a relation or just an apprentice?

Edited by author 22-10-2007 14:20
Hello Kate

Hooray! I have been trying to find out more about the Turners for years but without much success and had never come across anyone who knew anything about them at all. Yes, Thomas was George's brother-in-law . . . I have put as much as I have been able to find out on my web page:

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/horrabridge/mary_anne.htm

and, as you can see, George almost certainly took on several Windeatts as apprentice jewellers - not only Thomas but also Richard, Thomas's brother, and possibly also a couple of nephews by marriage: Robert and Charles, the sons of Mary's brother, John. Charles Allen (originally a jeweller before he became a band leader and 'professor of music') was the paterfamilias of the 'musical Windeatts' - the subject of recent messages on this board.

Poor little Thomas, the seventh son, died at an early age in a lunatic asylum. He had a wife and daughter but I think the daughter must have died in childhood.

I have traced George Turner's wife's family (Mary Anne Windeatt) back to 1742 (it's all on the web pages) but it's proved impossible to get any further back . . . just too many Johns around and no way of knowing which one is which.

Do get in touch! Sandra

Sandra:
 
I finished my family history and have not corresponded with you for a long time, but I decided to put a last effort into my ancestor Ann Wingate. Attached is the result of my efforts. I would appreciate any comments that you might have.
 
Thank you.
 
Jon C. McKenzie



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

I'm researching the Tarraway family (sailmakers in Devonport dockyard in the late 18th and early 19th centuries) and I came across this legal case in the National Archives

Item details C 13/557/63
Tarraway v Wingett. Bill only.
Plaintiffs: Hester Tarraway widow.
Defendants: William Joseph Wingett, Mary Elizabeth Wingett and James Easton
Covering dates 1835

Does anyone have any idea what the case is about, please?

With best wishes

Andrew Wood namussi@hotmail.com

Hello Andrew,

I'm afraid I don't know anything about this case - and there are even a few William WINGETTs that it could refer to. I suspect it might be one the family who lived in Plymouth around then (http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/wills/williamwingett1855.htm).
You will need to send off for a photocopy if you want to find out more. I am not sure what "Bill only" means. Do let us know what it is all about if you do find out.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention,

Sandra

Hello Jon

Thank you very much for contributing the story of Ann Wingate. I have uploaded it to a couple of web pages and you can now find it via the 'Strays section' (linked from the Home page) or directly here:

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/strays/index.htm

As always, please advise about mistakes, etc. or anything that needs correcting.

Regards, Sandra

In a message dated 11/2/07 10:56:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, qtopic+12-dPAvCykE9uBCE@quicktopic.com writes:

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/strays/index.htm



Sandra:
 
Thank you very much for all the additional information on Ugbrooke, Chudleigh, etc. You are a font of knowledge as usual. I hope that someone comes up with more information on Ann Wingate.
 
Jon



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

Further to the mystery of Ann Wingate:

Although the Totnes Windeatts were non-conformists there is a Catholic link in the person of Mary Fabyan Windeatt - see http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/people.htm#literary

However, she flourished some 150 years after Ann so I am not sure we can make much of it. I have never been able to discover where/when the Catholicism appeared in this family and it is quite likely that Mary F was herself a late convert. However, in the unlikely event that there was a Catholic branch of this family further back then this just might be a clue to the Ann Wingate provenance.

Not very likely but worth a footnote I guess.

My great great grandfather. James Windeatt was born about 1847 in Newton
Abbot Devon, His family then moved to greenwich greater London Kent.
I found out about him on the 1901 census. Have you any info on them?
Also i would love to know who his father was, would appreciate any info.
Regards
Lesley Johnson

Hello Lesley

We don't know too much about James but I have typed up what we do know and you can now find it via the Families page:

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/families/index.htm

Your best bet is to order the two Newton Abbot birth certificates and then see which - if any - lists the father as 'William' to match the information on his marriage certificates.

Any further information that you find out will be very welcome and I won't put anything on the web without your express permission. Contact me via my email (at the bottom of most pages) if you find out anything interesting. I'd be very curious to know whether he is indeed the grandson of the Thomas who was in Marldon in 1861.

James is a common name in the Staverton tree so there could be links there too. I was also originally interested in this family because my husband's lot ended up in the Greenwich area too and I thought there might be a connection (although 'James' is not one of their family names).

Good luck!

Hello again
my great grandfather who was james windeatts son, was called george so was his son born in 1906 greenwich,They also had another son james born about 1914 in the same place., and my grandmother margaret mary born 1909. It was such a shock to my family to discover this page only we always thought
the windeatt family were born in ireland. Also when i looked up the registration for my grandmothers birth, that is when we linked the family
to greenwich and Newton Abbot. Will find out more info from my fathers
family and see what i can find out
Regards
Lesley Johnson

Hello again Lesley

Thanks for replying so quickly. I assume you know how to apply for the birth certificates? It will cost you 7 pounds for each one (I think plus postage?) if you order online with the GRO reference - and I have put the reference on the web page. You might want to order one first (e.g. dec 1847) and see if that is correct before trying the other one.

It might be a bit quicker or easier to write directly to the local Newton Abbot Office they don't need the GRO reference but will want name and date. I have had excellent service from the Devon offices in the past - especailly Exeter (which is more than I can say for Greenwich). Address and other information available from here:

http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/#CivilRegistration

http://www.devon.gov.uk/index/democracycom...rths/apply_copy.htm

http://www.devon.gov.uk/teignbridge.htm

Good luck!

Lesley, I have updated the page a bit. I now have a fairly strong hunch that your James is the one living in Marldon in 1961 with his grandparents.

I have now had some more hunches as well. We have a Thomas WINDYET baptised in Buckland Monachorum on 9th October 1739 to a Thomas and Elizabeth. Then later, in 1764 and 1767 also in Buckland Monachorum, a Thomas WINDGATE and an Agnes had a Rosamond and an Elizabeth. The family then disappears from the area and we had assumed that they may have moved to Kingsbridge where similar names turn up. However, in 1773 a Thomas and an Agnes start having children in Marldon and later a Roseman marries in 1789. So it is quite likely that this is the same family.

Other Horrabridge people (Buckland Mon. is one of the parishes of Horabridge) moved from there to the coast later so there could be a connection - see the page about George who must have moved to the coast before 1805:
http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/horrabridge/george1.htm

Information about Horrabridge is here:
http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/horrabridge/index.htm

Interesting . . .

ERRATA - should of course be 1861!

Is anyone researching the thomas wingett who was married to an agnes ? I am a direct descendant of one of their children a mary wingett baptised marldon 1773, she married james mare in tormoham 1803 and died in 1854.
I would love to find out the origins of thomas and agnes, but no luck so far.

I haven't had time to put anything in order, but I do know somehow the Windeatt family is somehow connected to the Bayly and Daman (Dammann)families from the Plymouth area.(mid 1800's) Elizabeth Windeatt rings a bell, but unfortunately I don't have time to go through my files too busy at work !
Kind regards,
Marcia

Edited by author 11-12-2007 18:42
Hi Sandra.
Thankyou so much for all the info you have given me.I am sending of for
birth certificates e.t.c and will get back to you about what i have found
out. Also were any of the windeatt family catholic, only my grandmother
was a live in domestic worker at the poor clares convent arundel sussex,
and was a catholic, When she married my grandfather in the early 1930s
they had to have two weddings one in a church of England Church.the other
in a catholic church, That is why everybody thought the windeatt famil were of irish descent.

Ah, thanks Lesley and I'm looking forward to hearing what you find out about James' parentage.

I too am curious about the Catholic connection. I haven't come across any Catholic connections at all EXCEPT for Mary Fabyan WINDEATT (see my message below) and also in our Horrabridge tree. If you go down to the bottom of the page and look at the fifth generation you'll see an Alfred E. S. who married Rosa RICHARDSON in 1904 in Plymouth and I have heard from a descendant that they were Catholics. But I have assumed that this was because Rosa was rather than any of the Windeatts. I suppose it could be the same in your family, e.g. one of the Windeatts could have married an Irish Catholic girl? But I have wondered about it because certainly in that branch of the family (Alfred's) they did get married in Register Offices rather than in the Anglican church and I have wondered if the reason was Catholicism rather than Atheism.

Regards, Sandra

Hello Marcia and Chloe

Yes, I have some thoughts on Thomas and Agnes in Marldon which I have mentioned below. There was also a Thomas and Agnes around the same time in Tavistock BUT THEY ARE ALMOST CERTAINLY A DIFFERENT Thomas and Agnes. The Tavistock lot are part of the relatively wealthy Totnes branch and they are the tree who are linked to the BALYs. You can find out a bit more on my wills pages.

Rushing off now but I will try and type up a bit more of what we know about these people when I get a chance.

Sandra

RE MESSAGE 224 - sorry when I said 'down to the bottom of the page', I didn't mean this page but my Horrabridge Generations page:

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/horrabridge/generations.htm

which I forgot to reference. Apologies for the confusion. Must rush.

Hello Chloed

Yes, I'm curious about this Thomas and Agnes too. How do you know that your Mary is their daughter and is the same one who married James Mare? Email me personally if you don't want to put all this on the message board. My email address is listed at the bottom of the Home page. I have a feeling I have come across a reference to this marriage before . . . ? I will check up and see what I can find.

Sandra

Edited by author 19-12-2007 00:27
Chloe and Lesley,

I have uploaded my guesswork about Thomas and Agnes of Marldon to a further page. You can get to it from the page about James or directly from here:

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/famil...20to%20Woolwich.htm

Scroll right down the page for all the info.

---

sandra can u send me your private e-mail address so i can give u access to my tree , having looked at your guesswork tree it has now thrown up some very interesting details.
regards chloe
On 19 Dec 2007, at 04:55, QuickTopic daily digest wrote:

>
< replied-to message removed by QT >

Hello again Chloe

My private email address is at the bottom of most of the web pages. It is in the form of an image (i.e. you can't click on it unfortunately but have to copy it out) in an attempt to avoid spam. Looking forward to hearing from you.

Sandra

Hi Sandra,
Have found out george salter windeatt was married to an irish woman, So i
Think that was why my grandmother was catholic, He married in greenwich
in 1904 but i do not know his wife's maiden name or her first name.
Thanks for all info you put on the message board

sandra
just found what i think is the 1841 census return for james "mare" and wife mary winget, they are transcribed as heye living at coombe , st marychurch.
if you really blow up the image the "H" of heye is an "M", there is a woman living with them ,who rings no bells with me but might someone else.
regards chloe
On 20 Dec 2007, at 04:55, QuickTopic daily digest wrote:

>
< replied-to message removed by QT >

Edited by author 21-12-2007 10:45
Thanks Chloe for the census data - I have now updated the page.

I don't suppose you can find Mary's eldest son, Thomas WINGATE (or variant spelling) as well? He should also be in St. Mary Church - although if he was away at sea I guess it could just be his wife Grace, perhaps with a child or two. I couldn't spot him/her when I was just scrolling down the CD.

Lesley, glad you appear to have solved the religion problem. According to FREE BMD, (http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl) George Salter's wife was either a Charlotte Louisa STIMSON or a Mary Kathleen SUTTON. Given the Irish connection I would imagine it is Mary Kathleen.

I'm looking forward to finding out if James, the house painter, is Thomas' grandson.

Regards and many thanks to all, Sandra

Hi Sandra,
Thanks again for the info on George salter windeatts wife, I have found out
it was mary kathleen sutton who george married, Thanks to the names you gave me. She was born in waterford ireland,and was on the 1901 census for
lewisham, Also you are right about names following down in familys,only
my fathers two sisters names are mary and sarah and i notice in james windeatts tree there is a mary and sarah. will hopefully have james windeatts birth certificate soon.
lesley

Hello again Lesley

I find I have a copy of the death certificate for Mary Kate - George's widow. She was said to be 77 when she died in 1952. Her son, George, was the informant. Apologies for the delay in letting you know.

Regards, Sandra

Hi Sandra,
Thankyou so much for the information on my great grandmother,
I kept asking my dad when his gran had died but he is so bad at remembering
things and didn't have a clue. which i find very frustrating when i am trying to find things out, he remembers seeing her when he was very young
during the 2nd world war she came down to where they lived in west sussex
to escape the bombing in london, But that week along the sussex coast got bombed and she went back to london, all though where my dad lived was safer
she insisted she was better of in london, which my dad finds quite funny
today.
Hope to have info on william windeatt soon will contact you as soon as i get it.
Regards Lesley

Lesley,

If you would like your great grandmother's death cert, I can send it to you. Contact me privately via my personal email (at the bottom of the home page) and let me know your address. (My husband's family were in Greenwich at about the same time and I originally bought this thinking she might be one of them.)

Regards, Sandra

Hi sandra,
Yes i would love my great grandmothers death certificate, Thankyou so much,
At the moment i have been having problems trying to email you at your email
address, my daughter said she will try for me on her computer,
also its becoming very hard to try and obtain a birth certificate for james
windeatt nobody can trace his birth, i will keep trying though.
kindest regards.
Lesley

Lesley - cert(s) in post. Sandra

Hi Sandra

I was delighted to find the Windeatt family tree yesterday when I decided to investigate this barnch of my extended family, having drawn a blank on the line I was following. Ellen Windeatt(daugther of Robert Froom windeatt & Helen Naylor) was my Great Grandmother. Ellen married George Henry Smith 1888 in Camberwell. I have iformation on the Smith family if you interested, I would be very happy to share it with you.

Regards Frances

Hello Frances, Many thanks for getting in touch. I will be replying via my personal email address which can be found at the bottom of the HOME page herer -

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/

(go down to the Author section)

WINGATE in BATTERSEA LONDON.
My husband's grandfather was born in 1868 to a family of Thames watermen who had been based in the BATTERSEA and CHELSEA area of London for at least a century.
The grandfather, Frederick Wingate, became a vicar and worked in South Africa from 1890-1910.
Do any other listers on this forum have any link to these WINGATES?

Thanks to the information from Frances (see message below) we have been able to update the previously very sketchy page on Robert Froom WINDEATT (elder brother of Charles Allen of the musical lot).

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/horrabridge/robertf.htm

I am currently researching recipients of the Freedom of the Borough of Totnes from 1888 to 1975. I am particularly interested in Captain Francis Knowles Windeatt who received his Freedom of the Borough on his return from the Boer War in 1901. He volunteered to go to South Africa and I have seen several letters he wrote to his father about the conflict. Does anyone know if there is a diary written by this man? Or any other memorabilia appertaining to the Freedom of the Borough or the Boer War? On his return from South Africa he was given a parade sword with the Borough Arms and an inscription. Any information out there would be gratefully appreciated.
Val Price
e-mail: valerie.price@lycos.co.uk

Hello Val,

Captain F. K. Windeatt was born in 1875 the son of Thomas White Windeatt, solicitor, and Mary (née Bennett). There are living descendants and one of them has posted a message on this message board - see Message 75 below from Nicholas Alexander WINDEATT.

As a start, I suggest you try contacting Nicholas at the email addresss he gives - the family may have personal memorabilia, diaries, etc.

Another source of information, although I imagine you have tried them already, is the Totnes Museum. I know they would be interested in both receiving and disseminating any information about the family.

Thirdly, there is a huge archive of information at the Devon Record Office relevant to this particular family under the title, 'Windeatt & Windeatt, solicitors, 17th-20th cent: clients papers (Amery, Fabyan, Palk and Sparke families) deeds, marriage settlements, corresp and business papers'. The DRO reference is 5651M and the NRA catalogue reference NRA 44659. Again, if you haven't done so already, you may like to contact them and see if there is anything relevant in the archive. Or, depending where you are, you could consult the catalogue at the NRA in Kew and then you could ask the DRO to photocopy anything relevant and send it on to you.

Also, if you like, I can put anything you are willing to have distributed more widely on a web page dedicated to him. Do let us know if you find out anything more. We are always grateful to receive any Windeatt information.

Sandra W

Edited by author 03-03-2008 20:16

Who was John WINGATE of Modbury?

I have been sent a scan of the end cover of a book which is signed John WINGATE of Modbury 1777. I am wondering who this could be? The full story is available via the strays page or directly here:

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/strays/johnwingate1777.htm

If anyone has any ideas, please get in touch.

Sandra

I doubt if this message will help you extend your family tree but finding you was such a coincident I could not resist sending a message. I'm doing a family tree which includes the Dudley family. On 25.2.1850, my grandmother, Gertrude Ann Webb Dudley was born at 3 Sekforde Street, Clerkenwell, London. Her parents were Henry Smith Dudley and Catharine Dudley nee Munro. Henry was a vellum binder. Your ancestors and my ancestors were almost certainly neighbours. The Dudleys had strong connections with Leicester, they went back there to have there children baptised. I've just checked, a place in Sekforde Street, is currently selling for about one and a half million sterling. Why didn't my ancestor hold on to their property? Sekforde a street of skilled artisans? You have done an amazing amount of research. Good luck.

Edited by author 06-03-2008 23:18
Thanks for your kind message and good luck with your research.

Sadly, I have to disclaim much of the praise for 'An amazing amount of research' because a considerable amount of the information on these pages has been searched out, volunteered or inspired by the questions of others - some of whom are named but quite a few, as they prefer, are noted anonymously.

Sekforde Street - one and a half million pounds! London prices really are ridiculous these days. However, I think you need not feel too bad about your ancestors not holding on to the property because they probably rented rather than owned it . . . I think most 'artisans' did in those days. However, I similarly wonder why I didn't buy that Hampstead flat all those years ago when I was offered the leasehold!

Sandra

I have loads of old photo's some of these I am sure are of the winngett family Plymouth Devon, but as the men were Naval men they moved around.
Names were Edward Wingett, william Edward Wingett and perhaps others.
Interested?
My e-mail is terrytictoc@hotmail.com
Good hunting Terry

Sorry Wingetts of Plymouth should be spelt
William Edward Wingett and Edward Wingett

Hello Terry

Yes, we would be very interested in copies of any photos you may have.

I'll contact you by email.

Sandra

Re Gulfredus Hubert Havelock Wingett.

I have found your ref to the above in Parish Records via a google search, and am now very confused!

To explain.... I have been trying to find a Frederick William Havelock who was supposedly born in Exeter in 1832 (info from 1881 census Woolwich)Also found ref to his son Gulfredus William Havelock. Having had no luck searching for Frederick, I turned my attention to Gulfredus, being the more unusual name and found (via ancestry)on the 1841 census a 'Gulpedas Hescheko' b1830. Closer inspection of the original image yields Havelock, and on the same census is a brother Frederick b1832 both born in Devon. They are living with a John and Elizabeth Goald/Gould. Could this Elizabeth be your Elizabeth Wingett?

On the 1851 census, Frederick is now Frederick Gould, and Gulfredus is living in Clifton, place of birth given as Teignmouth and is a Herbal Practitioner. I lose track of them after this until Frederick is serving with the Navy in 1861.

I am probably grasping at straws here, but I have been hitting my head off this brick wall for years!

I had been told (unsourced) that the father of Frederick Havelock was William Havelock (also stated on Fredericks marriage cert) a Commercial Traveller. So who was Hubert?

Were they Havelocks, Wingetts or Goulds?
Any help or comments on this gratefully received.

Regards

Margaret

Hello Margaret

Thanks for getting in touch. Hmmm . . . . a nice little mystery. I'm assuming Elizabeth WINGETT had a couple of illegitimate sons by a William HAVELOCK but later married a GOULD. However, this is all supposition. I don't think I have a record of a WINGETT marrying a GOULD - but that means nothing as pre-1837 records are patchy to say the least.

Can you let me know the addresss where they were in 1841? I have a CD of the original images (but not a search facility) and I would like to have a look at it.

As for Hubert . . . I am also at a loss.

And now for the red herring - I see that there was a William and Elizabeth WINGETT living in Plymouth in the 1851 who had a John and a Michael GOULD living with them - listed as son-in-law - and presumably sons of Elizabeth before she married William (http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/census51.htm#Plymouth). This can't be the same Elizabeth, can it? But it does add another complication. Perhaps they were all related somehow? I have found a very common pattern of people hauling in female relatives to marry widowed men with children to look after.

I wonder if there are any GOULD researchers out there who might be able to help? Have you tried that line of enquiry?

It would be nice to solve this one so I look forward to hearing from you,

Sandra

Hi again,

Thank you for your reply. I have had a look at the census for 1851 you mentioned, but can't get my head 'round it! I have a John and Elizabeth Gould on the 1851 census for Plymouth St Andrew-Charles-District 1g. There is a son John listed of the correct age, a daughter Anne b1845 Plymouth, and I think my Frederick.

The 1841 census is Devon-Stoke Damerel-St Aubyn-District 1. Address Cherry Garden Street.

I hadn't thought about trying the Gould connection, must do.

Thanks again for your interest, this line has been driving me crazy for ages, I am trying to establish a link (family legend) to the famous Havelock ship building/military family the Havelocks of Durham.

Any help/suggestions most welcome.

Regards

Margaret

I have found a record of the 'red herring' marriage on the Plymouth Marriages CD: William WINGETT married Elizabeth GOULD in Stoke Damarel on 20/7/1845 - so I was right in assuming the GOULDs living with her in 1851 were her children by a previous husband/partner.

It might be worth seeing if you can find her in the 1841 living with a Michael GOULD aged 9 and possibly a baby John GOULD. As I say, this is almost certainly a red herring but could be worth exploring, given that we don't have much else and that she or her previous husband could be a relative of the family you are interested in.

I haven't looked at the 1841 for your family yet but will post again when I have.

Sandra

Seduction, Incest and adultery - newspaper report of an 1828 court case now available from the Home page.

Edited by author 22-04-2008 01:16
Sexual Harrassment at Work in 1852 - Harriet Windeatt's complaint upheld. Transcription of a report of a court case now available from the Home page. I haven't checked for mistakes yet so please don't hesitate to point any out.

This report has proved very useful because it also casts some more light on the family of the Thomas who was baptised in Marldon but later lived in St. Mary Church and whose mother, Mary, married James MARE/MEYOR. I have updated the relevant family tree.

Galfridus Hubert Havelock Wingett

Hello Margaret

I've spent an hour peering through images for Cherry Garden St but I can't spot the family. Do you have a piece number/page number?

I found a William Havelock Esquire living somewhere in the region of Teignmouth on this Genuki page

http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/Clovelly/Cl...ySufferers1821.html

A possible candidate for the father I guess.

And there is what may be a will here:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...unt=1&Edoc_Id=29946

and a letter from him here:

http://www.a2a.org.uk/html/048-1053.htm

might be interesting - as it was written the year following the birth of Galfridus Hubert Havelock W. and purports to be about his family.

Sandra

Galfridus Hubert Havelock Wingett - cont.

Ah-ha! Well, Margaret, you don't need to pay for a photocopy of that letter because there is already a transcription here:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/nigel.portas/sealb.htm

And given William's quoting of an ancester, "Galfridus de Havelock", we can see where the name comes from. Of course that doesn't mean William HAVELOCK was necessarily the father but it does rather strengthen one's suspicions.

Of course all the stuff about coming over before the conquest etc is probably a lot of nineteenth century my eye . . . see the transcription of the first chapter of Dickens' Martin Chuzzlewit
 - an absolute must read for family historians. I have a link to a transcription on my Author page.

But this is all very fascinating! Gosh - I have done nothing but discover sexual secrets for the last few days . . . I think I need to contrast it all with something a bit more boring to calm everything down . . . I promise that the next transcriptions will be about Temperance Meetings and Chartist Reform meetings (earnest Horrabridge tree types).

Sandra

Hi Sandra,

Thank you so much for all of the leads. I have been kept away from my reserach for a while due to babysitting grandchildren etc, but am now trying to get a quick 'fix' before they all descend on me again!

 The 1841 census source was on ancestry.co.uk and is Class HO107. Piece 274. Book 1. CP Stoke Damerell. ED 1. Folio 16. Page 27. Line 12. GSU Roll 241334.

Also on the 1851 census I have found a John and Elizabeth Gould, could possibly be the same family as ages, occupations etc closely match. Source Class HO 107. Piece 1878. CP Plymouth, Charles. ED 1g. Folio 240. Page 43. GSU Roll 221026.

As I previously mentioned, my Frederick Havelock has been very difficult to trace. Anything I have found about him leads to more questions than answers. His first wife was a Susan Adams Dawe b1842 in Salcombe in Devon, but he also had at least three other wives!

I think that the William Havelock esq you have found is a relation, but not the father of my Frederick, I say this because Fredericks supposed father was a commercial traveller, and his grandather Thomas Havelock, a soldier. All of this was told to me by another family member, but who will not help me with any proof/sources.

I will have a look at the will you have found, see if there are any clues there, I must also go through all my notes again see if there is anything I have missed. I have seen a copy of the letter you have found, but as you so rightly say, these should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Research on this line is quite difficult as I live on the west coast of Scotland and can't escape very often! But.....

I have just received in the post a wedding invitation, venue Exmouth! So I am hoping that I may be able to extend my visit to include some family history!

Thanks again for your help and interest.

Regards
Margaret

OK Margaret. Good luck with Exmouth. Do let us know if you find anything out. That Elizabeth (supposed mother of your Havelock boys) belongs to a group of records from Marldon, Teignmouth, etc., that I can't make much sense from currently. We have just the one will and quite a few records which are proving difficult to relate to each other.

Hi again,

Just had a quick look at my notes and see that William Havelock d 1836 at Heavitree. His brother Thomas was the soldier, who had William, commercial traveller, who was the supposed father of Frederick. The William who died at Heavitree was the father of Sir Henry Havelock of Lucknow fame.

Thanks again,

Margaret

Edited by author 26-04-2008 13:14
Galfridus (cont.)

Thanks for the census references Margaret. I've now put some transcriptions on my Teignmouth page: http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/paris...mouth.htm#galfridus

I don't have access to the images for 1851 - just the LDS tanscription CD so I'd be grateful if you could check it. It's almost certainly them because Elizabeth's birthplace is given as Teignmouth. I don't know what has happened to Galfridus. Your Frederick appears to have been born in Exeter - interesting. My Horrabridge lot were masons & plasterers and some of them were living in Exeter at that time so there might be a connection.

I'll probably put this stuff about Galfridus etc on a separate page under my 'strays' heading if that is OK with you?

Sandra

Hi,
1851 Census Plymouth St Andrew.

Market Alley John Gould Head Mar 35 Plaster Devon Exeter
Market Alley Eliz.Gould Wife Mar 37 Devon Teignmouth
Market Alley Fdk. Gould Son unm 18 Labourer Devon Exeter
Market Alley John Gould Son 10 scholar Jersey (?)
Market Alley Anne Gould Dau 6 Plymouth

1851 Census Clifton, Gloucestershire

Hotwell Road Gulfredus H. Havelock Lodger Unm 20 Herbal Practioner Devon
Teignmouth

I have done a quick search on Free BMD and found a John Gould death in 1843 Stoke Damerell, I wonder if that was the son of John and Elizabeth, no age is given. There are also a few deaths for Elizabeth Wingett which I shall follow up.

Gulfredus seems to dissapear, can't find anything, marriage, death, shipping lists, perhaps he dropped the Gulfredus. Well, wouldn't you?

Please do put my lot on your strays page, something may come of it.

Regards

Margaret

Hello again Margaret

I've created the page about Galfridus - now available from the STRAYS section. Let me know if it is OK or you want anything changed. Also I have referred to you anonymously as "a relative" or "a descendant" but am willing to change this to whatever you want. Some people like to be completely anonymous and some like to have their work attributed.

Sandra

Hello Sandra,

Thank you for creating the page about Gulfredus and the Havelock family. You have done a wonderful job, I can't think of any changes at the moment, but will keep you posted.

Thanks again

Margaret

Hi i have traced a Mary Windeatt from Totnes born 1762 she married Roger Hilley also from totnes. I would be happy to hear from anyone who may know anything about her and her family. Thanks very much Lorraine

Edited by author 22-05-2008 17:11
Hello Lorraine

Thanks for getting in touch. Unfortunately, I can't find this particular Mary's birthdate on any of the trees we already know about (that doesn't mean she doesn't belong to one of course). She could be part of the Totnes tree . . . Were the family non-conformists?

Where did you get the birth details?

All I could find was data that you probably are already aware of:

Roger Hilley married Mary WINDEATT 17 APR 1781 Totnes, Devon
MARY HILLEY Christening: 09 OCT 1781 Totnes, Devon, England
JENNY HILLY Christening: 04 JUN 1783 Totnes, Devon, England
Sally HILLEY christened 19 June 1786 Totnes, Devon
ANNE HILLY Christening: 31 DEC 1787 Totnes, Devon, England

Sally HILLEY married Joseph TEASELL
 
Roger HILLEY freeholder Coleridge Ashprington Devon Freeholders - Document Transcripts 1744

TEASELL, Joseph: Cabinet Maker - Name Listing from the Totnes Section of an 1822-23 edition of Pigot's Directory

FILE - Devon Record Office - ref. 1579A-0/24/40/7 - date: 1834
Contents
Cyprian Lee, cabinet maker: he was born in Ashprington where his parents belonged and lived there with them until he was 15 when his father placed him with Joseph TEASELL of Totnes, cabinet maker, to learn the trade, there was no indenture, he worked there for 4½ years, after 2 years he received 3s a week, he then went to Mr William Pulling of Totnes with a written agreement for 2½ years during which time he married in Totnes and rented a tenement for £4 a year, after the 2 years he made a fresh agreement with Mr Pulling as a journeyman at 15s a week, after 4 years he went to Exeter and worked as a journeyman for 16s a week with Henry Winsor for a year and rented at £4, then he worked for Mr Tucker of Exeter as a journeyman for 16s a week for 12 months rented a tenement for £8, then returned to Totnes where he is living with his wife's mother, Jane Warren, he has 2 children with him James 7 and Eliza 18 months

Unfortunately, unless there happen to be wills it is almost impossible to find out anything this far back. There are so many Marys and she could be any one of them. But if you have any more information about the birth or baptism that could be a clue.

In the meanwhile I could put her on a strays page and we can add more if/when we find out.

Regards, Sandra

Hi Sandra
       Thanks for looking for me. That is the Mary i'm looking into. And Joseph Teasell is my great, great grandfather i don't have any info on him at all in regards to his family etc. Would you know of anyone i can contact in the Totnes area who may be able to help. Lorraine

Try the Totnes Museum - they can be quite helpful:

http://www.devonmuseums.net/component/opti...ionid,23/catid,252/

And, if you haven't already, try the Devon-L mailing list.

Let me know how you get on.

Sandra

Edited by author 04-06-2008 15:16
I wonder if you may be interested in these ramblings. I have a Leah Dursnay Phillips born 5 Jun 1845 Powderham, Devon an illegitimate daughter to Mary Ann Phillips and grandaughter to Ezekiel Phillips (miller) and Elizabeth.On the 1851 census Leah Phillips aged 5 is staying with Ezekiel and Elizabeth at Powderham Mills.I believe she reappears on the 1871 census with them at Brown's Court, St. Thomas, Exeter under the name of Leah Edwards. I was wondering therefore whether she could be the Leah Edwards that you have as the second wife of Richard Windeatt? If you are interested please let me know. Regards Lynn Bailey.

Hello Lynn

Thanks for getting in touch. Yes, sounds like this could be the same Leah - I have a CD of images of the 1871 for Devon so when I get a minute I will trawl through and see what it reveals. Perhaps EDWARDS was the surname of her father - or the name of the father of her illegitimate child (also Leah). She claims to be a spinster on her 1874 marriage certificate so it can't be the surname of any formally married previous husband.

Your Leah is in the 1861, aged 15, and visiting a John and Ann GALE in Kenton, Devon. Piece: RG9/1392 Place: Kenton -Devon Enumeration District: 6
Civil Parish: Kenton Ecclesiastical Parish: Kenton
Folio: 90 Page: 17 Schedule: 1 (courtesy FREECEN).

Sandra

Edited by author 06-06-2008 00:24
Hello again Lynn

Took a bit of doing but I eventually found them on the 1871 - on just about the last page of hundreds covering Cowick Street, Exeter and its numerous courts. Not a lot of help though. They were living in Brown's Court (off Cowick Road) St. Thomas' Parish and not sharing the house with any other household. Details are:

Ezekiel PHILLIPS, Head, Married, Age 74, Miller, Born: Uptonpine, devon
Elizabeth PHILLIPS, Wife, Married, Age 64, Birthplace: ???, devon
Leah EDWARDS, Visitor, Unmarried, Age 24, Birthplace: Powerderham, devon
Ellen EDWARDS, Visitor, Child, Age 4, Birthplace: St. Edmunds, Exeter, devon

Unfortunately I can't read where Elizabeth was born (but perhaps you know that from another census?).

In 1881 the Leah who married Richard WINDEATT had a daugher, aged 9, also named Leah and born in Exeter. And there is no Ellen. But perhaps Ellen had died and there is a likely candidate in the death of an Ellen EDWARDS who died in the September quarter of 1875, aged 9 [Ref 5b 41].

However there is no clue as to where the surname 'Edwards' came from.

We'd need to see the daughter's birth certificate for further clues. But, in the meanwhile, it looks like Leah the mother could well be the person who became Richard's second wife.

There is a picture of Brown's Court on this Exeter Memories page:

http://www.exetermemories.co.uk/em/oldexeter60s.html

Hi Sandra,
Glad to have been of some help. Thanks for the details that you posted and I shal be looking into them. I and several other people have deduced that Elizabeth Phillips may have been born at Stawley with a maiden name of Disney.Other people have also indicated she may be a descendent of a Pierre D'Assigny who was the French Huguenot Rector of St Helier Church on Jersey! I still have to find proof for this though.

Many thanks
Lynn

Edited by author 14-06-2008 15:51
Hi again Lynn,

Do let us know if you find out anything further.

Thanks, Sandra

Hi i am from Australia and i am a Windiate. I was just looking around and noticed that you have done so much research into this.

The only Windiate family i know is my Grandfather
Harold Windiate unsure of birthdate or date of death but i know he was born in Australia and had two children Caroline Windiate (now Warner) and Andrew John Windiate born 14 Dec 1960. I am one of his children.

Is is just interesting to know the family history as i really only know to my grandfather.

Hope this helps in any way
Cheers Skye

Edited by author 05-08-2008 14:48
There has been quite a bit of research done into WINDIATE and it appears that they are all related and come from Hampshire (but possibly from Devon originally).

A while ago a WINDIATE researcher gave me her tree and I said I would put it on these web pages . . . unfortunately, it is still on my 'TO DO' list. But perhaps I will get around to it now.

I imagine your Harold's father or both parents emigrated out there at some time - presumably earlier in the 20th century.

Edited by author 05-08-2008 21:11
I was just following up Harriet b.1835, as she is sort of related to me! In 1851 she could be the 14 year old gen.servant at a farm in Combeinteignhead, just before moving to the minister's employ. In 1861, she's 25, sister-in-law to Samuel ANSCOMB(E)in Brighton. He's a paper-hanger, and m.Elizabeth WINGETT 1848 in Brighton. In 1871, aged 33, she's a gen.servant in Brighton, and in 1881, aged 42, she is a cook back in Combeinteignhead. Possibly! Elizabeth would have to be an earlier child of Thomas'. The only other thing I've found is a WINDEATT/WEBBER link in 1861, when John b. Shaldon has a widowed daughter Anna WEBBER aged 24.

Edited by author 05-08-2008 23:36
Ah thanks Lyn!

I must say I do have quite some admiration for Harriet. It must have taken quite some doing for her to have made that complaint and stood up to all the innuendo and aspersions. If you are willing to write up what you have found out about Harriet since, I can add it to the web page - acknowledged as from you of course.

So does it look as if she never got married at all? Sad. When I thought she was the other Harriet I was very happy to think that she sailed off to Australia for a new life and got married there and had family. The reality seems a bit more miserable.

I think there were only a couple of other Harriets around at this time - the one who went to Australia and another who appears to have been a "farm servant" fairly consistently, so you probably have been following the right one.

Thomas and his ancestors and descendants have defied my casual researches so far - he doesn't appear to have registered any of his children and I think he may have had a few. We can add Elizabeth to the list of possibles. Thanks again for all this new infk
o.

On the other hand, I suspect the Anna WEBBER is not related as I have her down as being part of the Horrabridge tree - see:

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/horrabridge/johnh.htm#child2

HOWEVER, and there always seem to be so many 'howevers' in family history, it is just possible that her father, John, the baker, is himself not part of the Horrabridge tree . . . information about him was pieced together with guesswork. I have not been contacted by any descendants or other researchers.

---

The account of the recipients of the Honorary Freedom of the Borough of Totnes is now complete and on sale at Totnes Image Bank for £5 (Postage £1). This includes Captain Francis Knowles Windeatt in 1901, Edward Windeatt in 1917 and George Windeatt in 1945.
I am holding over the spin-off story of the Volunteers that went to South Africa for the Boer War (includes Captain F.K.Windeatt) until a later date as I am not yet convinced I have all ther material. Will post more news here when it is finalised.

Thanks Val and congratulations on your work.

Hello Sandra
I read with interest from you Webpage that My Father’s name was mentioned in 1907 in relation to Grimsby.
My father’s name was Herbert Henry Gladwin who was born on 30th March 1907.
I know he lived in Grimsby and his mother’s name was Amy, daughter of Robert Windeatt (a trawlerman)
My father married Olga Weinelt in about 1953 and they had three children.
Should you need any further information please do not hesitate to contact me.
Kind regards
Peter Herbert Henry Gladwin

Hello Peter

I received an email from you before I read this message so I have replied at length to your email address. Thank you very much for this information. We now know that the Amy who married Herbert GLADWIN in Grimsby (your grandmother) was the daughter of Robert, a trawler skipper/steam fishing manager, who originally came from near Brixham, Devon, but married Lucy RHOADES in 1884 in Grimsby.

Some time ago I transcribed the 1891 census for Brixham (for FREECEN) and was surprised at how much intermarriage there was between fishing folk - with quite a few devon people married to people from Hull/Grimsby/ and other ports all round the English coasts. We tend to think of travel as limited in those days and forget how busy the coastal traffic was.

There is a bit more about this family - including a transcription of Amy's parents' marriage certificate on the Torquay Tree page on this website.

Regards, Sandra

---

Have just googled Walter Molton Bevan, born Barnstaple 1835, and was taken to your most informative site. Walter Bevan was my husband's great grandfather. The 1851 Census shows Walter as being a lodger in the house of Phillip Skews and his wife Sally [this info is under the heading Sarah Wingate 1783-1809]. Also in the household was Johanna T [Truscott] Skews, dau of Phillip and Sally. In 1857 Walter and Johanna were married and shortly after the marriage they came to Australia and settled in Clunes, Victoria. Walter and Johanna were accompanied by her parents, Phillip and Sally Skews. Sally died in Clunes 7 Oct 1882. Her death certificate shows that she was born in Horrabridge and her parents were Thomas Rowe, Farm Labourer, and Sarah, formerly Wingate. Sally' father, Phillip Skews died 5 Sept 1871. His occupation at the time was Storekeeper. Both Phillip and Sally are buried in the Clunes cemetery. Both death certificates state that Phillip and Sally had two children, Mary Ann, deceased, and Johanna. Mary Ann is not shown on the 1851 Census - I don't know when she died. Phillip and Sally married abt 1836 in Buckland Monachorum.

Because of the connection to Sarah Wingate [Rowe] I thought you may like this info.

Regards,

Rae Worcester raew@bigpond.com

Hi Sandra,

Have just been adding some info to my Bevan/Skews line and something is not quite right regarding the date of Sarah Rowe's [Wingate] death. You record her marriage and death as 1809. I can't say that is wrong, but I have Sarah's daughter, Sally, as being born abt 1818. Sally's death certificate shows she was 64 when she died in 1882. The other info on the certificate states she was aged 20 when she married Phillip Skews and that she had been in the Colony for 25 years - which takes her back to 1857, the year she came out on the "Ben Nevis" with her husband Phillip Skews and her daughter and son in law Johanna and Walter Bevan. Is it possible for you to check the date of death for Sarah Rowe [Wingate]? Many thanks

Rae Worcester

Thanks very much Rae - I will have another look at this and report back. Sandra

[LATER]
 Hello again Rae,
Yes, the 1809 date on the Sarah WINGATE heading is a typo mistake of mine. Thanks very much for spotting it. Sorry for my mistake. I'm not sure when she died so I have corrected it to a '?'.

How nice to know that Walter and Joanna got married six years later - real 'childhood sweethearts'.

Could I have your permission to add the information you have given me to the web page? I will attribute it to you by name of course - or, if you prefer, identify you as 'a researcher', 'a descendant' or whatever you prefer.

Many thanks, Sandra

Edited by author 21-10-2008 21:51
Another thought . . . this would be too good to be true but I don't suppose your BEVANs have any links with the John and Jane BEVAN who are mentioned in Elizabeth WINGETT's will of 1855? Unlikely as Bridestowe isn't remotely near Barnstaple - but I thought I should ask.

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/wills...ethwingett_1855.htm

---

Hi Sandra,

You are more than welcome to use the info, plus my name. Will email you 2 Family Group Records for Walter & Johanna Bevan and Phillip & Sally Skews, feel free to extract whatever info you need for your site.

Don't recognize your Bevan names [what a shame!] - Walter was the son of William Prout Bevan and Mary Ann Darke, all born Barnstaple.

Bye for now,

Rae

Hello again Rae

Thanks for the information received. I have now updated the page:

http://www.windeatt.f2s.com/windeatt/horrabridge/john1.htm#sarah2

As always, please let me know of any errors, omissions etc.

Regards, Sandra

Hi Sandra,

Re possible date of death of Sarah Rowe - Walter & Johanna Bevan, and Phillip & Sally Skews travelled to Australia on the "Ben Nevis", which arrived in Port Phillip Bay [Melbourne, Victoria], 31st Aug 1857. The Sarah Rowe you located in the June quarter for 1857 could well be Sally's mother. I know it is naughty to "assume" anything in genealogy, but you would have to think, given the time frame, that it is our Sarah. Also, it is doubtful the whole family would just up and leave her behind!! I haven't done any research on the Rowe line so can't say for sure.

The Bevans and the Skews all came to Australia as Unassisted Inward Passengers [1852-1923] and have just had another look at the index to see if there were any relatives travelling on the same ship. There was a Richard Rowe, age 24, but don't know whether he was related to Sally. No other Bevans or Wingates. Out of curiosity I put in the name Wingate without specifying a ship and there were 77 listed coming to Victoria! I wonder if any of them are related to you. Google PRO Vic and it will open up the site and you will find the links to Passenger Indexes.

How is this for a theory ! In the 1851 Census I think the "U", as shown against Sarah Rowe's name, should have been in the line above, against Johanna's name.

The Skews name and all its variants, of which there are many, comes from Cornwall. I have a book, "Cornish Heritage", written by Keith Skues, and he explains the origins of the name. I didn't realize that there were so many Skews etc. in the world! It must have taken Keith Skues forever to collate all the names.

 I will let you know if I come across anything else that may be of
interest to your research.

Regards,

Rae