Either that guy doesn't live here or the Chinese don't know they all live in the Sunset. And culturally lagging? Hah! What about that musical with all the big hats!

About twelve years back, I was a traveling sales trainer for a PC company. One assignment took me to a bland midwestern city. Let's call it . . . Witchita. There was a plaque in the hotel elevator touting the Skyline Lounge or somesuch . . . a bar on the top floor. The big attraction was a lady piano player named Doris. She looked kind of big and well into middle age. "Wow, how wonderfully lame!" I thought, "I bet this is the big night spot! Sneer! Smirk!"

At the training the next day, one of the sales guys at Silo asked me where I'd been put up. I mentioned the hotel's name. "WOW!" he said, "Did you go see Doris!?!?"

And then there was the time in Tulsa with the hotel hosting International Order of the Daughters of Job . . .

But anyway . . . I'll take a place like San Francisco, with all the mess and bums and pretentious impractical jackass activists and technoyuppies, over the clusters of strip-malls, subdivisions, and dead-after-six pseudo-downtowns that pass for cities in most of the country.

Cripes, I just moved to Fairly Hip and Very Livable Portland, and DANG . . . one public TV station? One public radio station? Coyotes slipping onto the light rail line to nap?

So, if San Francisco's lame, what's cool?

I dunno, Klint. Maybe London or New York? Paris? Ulan Bator?

Eeeeh, these "San Francisco sucks" articles always bug me. (Note: I don't live in San Francisco at the moment, but in one of those bedroom cities down the Peninsula.) Frankly, I'm tired of them.

First, the writer conflates San Francisco and Silicon Valley, which might be part of the same extended region but are actually, like, 40 miles apart. Different cultures. What sort of nightlife did this guy expect in Silicon Valley, for heaven's sake? There's no there there yet, if ever. Just picking up a copy of Metro before he moved in would have told him that. And saying that "all X's in San Francisco live in X", whatta maroon. Wake up, wake up, there are ethnic enclaves in every last major urban center, you lazyminded writer, you.

And if the writer ever left his apartment -- when your friends are stuck at work, go out on your own, okay? -- he'd discover fun, arty things to do not just in San Francisco but in the East Bay (which harbors more weirdass stuff than we realize, because weirdass people can afford to live there).

It's not exactly news that San Francisco is smaller than New York, or London, or Los Angeles. If you want those cities, move there. Further note: I'm from Los Angeles, I've spent considerable time in New York, and I've lived in London; you pay a price for each city's particular strengths. For instance, LA is "more culturally vibrant" only in certain ways, and you often have to drive more than an hour to wherever you want to vibrate. London is cool, but it's crumbling around the edges. New York has all that stuff going, but it also never shuts up.

The sad truth is, if you want to have a constant stream of Anglophone urban amenities available to you 24 hours a day, no more than a few blocks from 24/7 public transportation, no matter what, you probably need to move to New York. At which point you get the other aspects of New York.

Which reminds me, don't even get me started on the "San Francisco center taken over by 5,000 homeless people" bullshit. Very briefly, Giuliani's path for dealing with the homeless is not a good model, and was shut down by the courts.

Pant, pant, pant. Thanks for allowing me to get that rant off my chest. It helped distract me from the angst from another project. Work avoidance is a wonderful thing.

Cory, if you're not a big fan of SF, why not move? I mean, there are plenty of things I don't like about London, but if, taking everything into account, I didn't think it was the best place I could possibly live then I would move. One of the delights of adulthood is the freedom to adjust one's personal environment to suit.

Alison, I'm staying for a very good job, one that makes lviing in the city worthwhile.

I live in The Mission, and, believe it, every word of that column is painfully true. I stay here because it's difficult to find a place that sucks less where a non-driving slacker like me can survive longer than 15 minutes.

I thought the article was, like totally lame.

I grew up in the Bay Area and I am sick of smart out-of staters coming
here an grabbing all the good jobs. Then complaining because they don't fit into San Francisco. They have
no plans on staying, they have no respect for San Francisco and California.
They are like rapists who get what they want and then call
you a slut.

If you want to enjoy SF, you gotta get away from all the outsiders. How many real San Franciscians did the author meet?

Yes, that makes me a xenophobe toward out-of-staters and foreigners. If you had seen *your* state taken
over by these people you would be appalled
.

I know the yoyo guy if hes what san francisco has to offer Im glad I dont live there.

Damn, a telemarketer woke me up. Don't worry, I promise not to rant like that again.

But Sighmoan... the Mission is probably the place _least_ like that article in all of SF. I mean, the Mission is pretty big, but if you're anywhere near the Market-Cesar Chavez-Folsom-Duboce quadrangle you're within easy walking distance of a truly astounding multi-ethnic array of restaurants, coffeehouses, bookstores, performance spaces, small clubs, bars, small weird shops, and, uh, people. Open late, too, with good transit.

Honestly, if that kind of stuff isn't what you're looking for I'd be interested to know what you do want. Saying that non-hostilely, because I genuinely don't understand.

I read the article late last night, and was all set to rant after a good night's sleep, but BeltedSwiss pretty much covered my points.

I did find it ironic that two entries after condemning the idea of making homelessness illegal, Cory was endorsing an article criticizing San Francisco, a city that routinely harasses the homeless, trashes their encampments and carts, etc., for its lax tolerance of "those people."

And I gotta wonder... how much culture do you need? Within convenient biking distance of my house in the middle of Berkeley, I already have so many interesting choices every weekend that it could induce option paralysis. And San Francisco has more -- more than anyone could possibly pursue, enough for potential option paralysis every day of the week. Why is not having even _more_ choices than anyone could possibly pursue so intolerable?

Yeah, SF isn't Manhattan. If your define adequately cool as Manhattan, then SF isn't adequately cool. A great triumph of argument by definition.

By some stereotypes I'm a local villain... moved to Berkeley from the East Coast late in '95, and worked for web startups in San Francisco. But I didn't come here to get rich quick; I fell in love with Berkeley when I first visited in '91, and had been planning to move here since.

Sure, the area has flaws. Sure, there are interesting things going on elsewhere, too. But I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.

You know what, you're right. San Francisco is a helluva lot better than most American cities. I'm comparing it to New York, London, or Los Angeles. By that standard, unfair as it may be, San Francisco doesn't stack up.

True, many San Francisco old-timers like the fact that it's a village. They don't want it to be New York. But, for a brief moment, SF/SV had an idea of itself as the center of the new world. The city set ambitious goals for itself. It failed, like a startup that can't live up to its own hype.

nick@nickdenton.org

"Personal discovery is rarely interesting and, in most normal cities, robustly ignored"

Perhaps Nick could dismiss SF as a "City With Too Much Time On Its Hands."