Edited by author 01-06-2002 05:08 PM
Although I don't feel as intensely about it as Jeffrey does, my issue with POD is that the best way to sell a book is to put it in someone's hand -- either in person, at a zine fair or whatever, or via a bookstore.

Considering the time that someone's put into writing a book, investing a thousand dollars to do a 500 copy print run seems reasonable. But I am very interested in hearing what people who have tried it feel...

Print-on-demand publishing is an industry whose time has not come. iUniverse is run by a cretin by the name of Richard Tam, who cares nothing about the quality of books. Both Xlibris and iUniverse have shoddy track records in terms of delivering their books.

Jeffrey Yamaguchi has written a polemic, but his ideas are very strong. It is a situation where the author should really beware. The production values of iUniverse books stink, and there is always the danger that they will not be delivered at all or months late.

POD capability is still intriguing. One day, the chains and the large independent bookstores will have machines that will be able to print out single books in seven minutes. The technology exists today, but it is not cost effective and there are no visionaries in the POD field.

In the future, POD will make it possible that no books will have to go out of print. This is thrilling from an intellectual standpoint, but authors should be careful. If you are publishing with a traditional house, read your contracts well. They may hold to your electronic and POD rights forever.

Hello Jim et al :-)
Sorry it took me so long to respond to your e-mail. I've been out 'marketing' my POD book! I too enjoyed the panel at the Northwest Bookfest immensely. It was great meeting everyone. I'm putting a link at the end of this e-mail to an article I did on POD.

For the most part my feelings are still positive about taking the POD route. I did a national radio show yesterday, The Barry Farber Show...and I have to say the subject of who published the book never even came up. He reviewed the book on its merits, saying it was a book of extraordinary power. The interveiw was a stellar experience. I got tons of hits on my website and numerous emails from his listeners. He interviewed me like I am a 'real writer'. The credibility of the book came from the work itself.

I must say I agree with Dylan Foley about Richard Tam. In fact, during my process with iUniverse I wrote him an incredibly disparaging letter. However, one man does not a company make. Ultimately the iUniverse staff worked with me, rather than against me, and I got the book I wanted. It's actually quite beautiful. But it is important to mention that I was a little like a pit bull when it came to the design, layout, and look of the book.

Marketing it has been no more difficult than a traditional publishing house marketing gig, but it has been infinitely more rewarding .... there is no big conglomerate buffer between the readers and the author. I have enjoyed the contact! The downside has been, and continues to be the dilemna of the bricks and mortar book stores. It is nearly impossible to get a POD book into them. I'm not convinced, yet, that this is a permanent condition. I just think it will take an 'applied effort' from those of us taking this road to get book sellers to realize there are ways to go about this new process that will ultimately be lucrative for them, and that will cut down on returns and burns! :-) The 'applied effort' will have to come in the form of media exposure, reviews, awards, and the like for writers who choose this path. Think Print on DEMAND -- we have to increase the demand. Here is the link to the article on POD that I wrote for Seattle Writergrrls called Print on Demand: Not For The Faint Of Heart http://www.seattlewritergrrls.org/2001i3_pod.htm
I look forward to a continued dialogue with you all about this timely and oh so controversial subject.
Christine (C.J.) Macgenn
http://www.oneleggedcricket.com
"Nothing ever ends, something new just begins."
                   Ulysses O. Niveus

Thanks, Jim, for inviting us to discuss POD and the issues it raises (as well as the issues it helps resolve!). I must say my own POD experience has been entirely positive, albeit with frustrations and obstacles because we're helping redefine the publishing and bookselling industries. The real challenges are on the commercial, the business front - credibility comes from having a credible book editorially, and then the next challenge is earning, or compelling people to give you, business credibility by getting into the industry's face. Why should things run "the way they always have"? Well, they shouldn't - and they can't, and won't, much longer. I think POD is a genuine harbinger of a sea change we're already experiencing.

Leah Kohlenberg and I edited a second POD title in November, a sequel to 09/11 8:48 a.m., an essay collection titled Dispatches from a Wounded World. That book is just beginning to be promoted and sold, and presents both a marketing challenge in its own right and an opportunity, because it gives fresh impetus to the first book. Also, see the very gratifying article below from the December 29 issue of The Guardian, which indicates that at least some in mainstream publishing and journalism are starting to "get it" about the direction of book publishing. The article appeared as one of three on a full page devoted to how September 11 affecting the publishing industry.

09/11 8:48 a.m. and Dispatches from a Wounded World are available online from http://www.booksurge.com and http://www.powells.com

Best regards, Ethan Casey
editor@blueear.com

"Deadline ... yesterday"
John Sutherland
The Guardian
Saturday, December 29, 2001

... And publishing could do with a boot because, oddly enough, while everything else has got faster, the manufacture of books has, particularly in the last decade, slowed down. There was a time when books moved in the fast lane of history. In the Victorian age, a novelist such as the young Dickens would write his books in weeks and have them in print in months. Penguin "specials" during world war two controlled the current-affairs debate with titles like Why Are We Fighting? Now the machinery of publishing - the commissioning, selling, designing and marketing of the object that eventually arrives in the shops - makes books move at glacial speed.

There are exceptions. Less than three weeks after the twin towers atrocity, www.BookSurge.com produced 09/11 8.48am: Documenting America's Greatest Tragedy. It was on sale within the month. The content of the 320-page book (a traditional ink and paper job) is choral. It brings together dozens of witnesses, weaving their voices into a complex narrative. It is, essentially, a bundle of stories. And, as in Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451, people have become the incarnation of their stories.

On one level, 09/11 8.48am looks like a spontaneous reaction of the kind that led bereaved New Yorkers to plaster city walls with posters, advertising missing loved ones or mourning their loss. But this book has been subjected to stringent editing; it's not a web jamboree. It's a "made" thing, not a happening. The result is not something merely "fast", in Gleick's sense. It is something complete - more complete (because truer to the event) than if it arrived next Easter. 09/11 8.48am accommodates the "shock of the new" at journalistic speed, and with journalistic fluidity, yet still has the monumental authority of "the book".

The "creators" (as they label themselves) were Ethan Casey, editor of the electronic journal Blue Ear, and Jay Rosen, chair of the NYU journalism department (a few hundred yards from Ground Zero). They have functioned like conductors of an orchestra, blending others' talents into unity. One is obliged to think analogically, because there has been nothing quite like this before. The big question, of course, is: does 9/11 8.48 am represent a paradigm shift, as Thomas Kuhn called it, or is it a "one-off" - as unique as the outrage that inspired it? ...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4326432,00.html

*

My address has changed from knack@med.unc.edu to prizzolo@earthlink.net
 
Mail sent to my former address is forwarded, but it takes forever.
 
I was excited to see the ongoing discussion of the pros and cons of POD. I was an enthusiast until Xlibris slapped us with a price increase that virtually priced my trade paperback out of the market. The bookstore price of $21.95 is outrageous and makes it clear to me that Xlibris doesn't really believe our books will sell through retail outlets. Their real market is the author!
 
I've had four readings/signings, one in my old home town in New Jersey, and three locally here in Chapel Hill, NC. Since publication in April 2001 I've sold a paltry 300 books (not counting the ones I bought for family and reviewers.
 
My greatest frustration is getting my book reviewed. Even my hometown paper turns up its nose on POD.
 
Incidentally, following my appearance on the panel, I began thinking about a website that would offer a service to writers. I now have a registered website domain called, writersmedicalconsultants.biz The website is still under construction but should be coming online in the next few weeks.
As a physician I'm often asked by writer friends to comment on some medical aspect of their short story or novel. I have discovered that I can almost invariably improve on the accuracy and believability of a particular medical situation or scene.
 
Getting back to POD, I am not going that route again. I am currently trying to market a collection of children's stories, a screenplay and a recently completed memoir. The query letters will flow from my residence like milk and honey in the promised land. Somewhere out there is an agent or publisher who will be as enthusiastic about my work as is my dear wife, Alyce.

Edited by author 01-20-2002 09:31 PM
I have to agree with Mr.Jeffrey Yamaguchi and Mr. Peter Rizzolo...

I put my first project with GreatUnpublished, (where I thought my book was going to be ready in 10 days, which proved to be false)...

The standard turnaround time was changed to 3 months, as they realized it took longer than expected...(and I believe they were receiving complaints...according to Publisher's Weekly)...
-----------------------------------------------------------

My book was finally finished...and sent to me..(in 3 1/2 months--which, to be fair, is a nice looking book)...however...the wait was disappointing...

In that same time, I ordered an authors copy (to take Jeffrey Yamaguchi's suggestion to order a copy to see how long it would take--once my readers find my book)and it was received in two weeks...(Mind you, GreatUnpublished stresses a 48 hour turnaround)...
----------------------------------------------------------

Moreover, my friend in Japan, who ordered the book from the GreatUnpublished is still waiting on HER order...(which was made in late-November of last year)...

For myself, I ordered 10 author's copies in December (on the 3rd) to dispurse out to reviewers and such...and found myself waiting until the middle of this month of January...
(Again, like Jeffrey Yamaguchi did with iuniverse.com, I emailed...called the office...even wanted a refund...)

I was told I couldn't get a refund due to the 48 hour turnaround of my order..(Hmm, if the order is supposed to be withing 48 hours...why am I waiting for nearly 2 months for my order?)
----------------------------------------------------------

I sent a complaint to Better Business Bureau, and even sought legal advice as to what to do...

However, once I recieved my books(with one extra copy), I chose to "breakit off" with GreatUnpublished, and go ahead with republishing the book with a printer...

-----------------------------------------------------------

POD has a ways to go, but those behind it, such as: Xlibris, iuniverse, and GreatUnpublished, have to make that effort also...

There are a lot of good independent authors out there who believe these Print-On-Demand companies are tools to get a project to the masses in a short and/or reasonable amount of time...

Unfortunately...

I'm the author of the "Print-Non-Demand" piece, and I'm glad to see the posts here about POD. It's a topic that needs to be discussed, and I hope that it further informs people who are considering POD as a publishing option.

Ethan Casey posted to the board and mentioned two POD books that he edited: "09/11 8:48 a.m." and "Dispatches from a Wounded World." While I think that these two books sound like great projects, I do not think they should be held up as positive examples for why POD is a good publishing route to go for the average author out there.

Be sure to read "The Instant Book that Wasn't by Elizabeth Manus at Salon.com about the "09/11 8:48 a.m." book:
http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2001/10/...sta_book/print.html

Here is a choice piece from the article:
"Why would a print-on-demand publisher stockpile 10,000 copies of a book, and thus disavow the statement at the back of the book that "09/11" was an on-demand paperback? Simple: BookSurge was sure that a book this timely would be in high demand. So, deviating from its typical process, BookSurge did a webpress print run, churning out 36 books at a time (regular offset printing usually handles 72) instead of one."

I mean, is the "09/11 8:48 a.m." book even a print on demand title? 10,000 copies stockpiled? Give me a break. It's downright pathetic - and says a great deal about the state of the POD industry - when even POD publishers opt to go with a press run in the thousands.

Also, the article makes clear that people at the highest levels at BookSurge were involved with this book. It got the kind of attention that most POD authors do not get from their POD publishers...

I will say, however, that it is these kinds of efforts that will one day turn POD into a more viable option. But for now, and for the next few years, it further proves to me that POD is a bad publishing option for the average author out there trying to get his or her work published.

I'd just like to make a couple more comments here. First, Jeffrey, your reference to hacks and positive POD experiences was a little harsh. I had a challenging but ultimately rewarding POD experience. I'm not a hack, I'm a professional writer, and I published my book this way for very specific and what I consider to be political reasons. Even though I had won a fairly prestigious award for 'one-legged cricket' when it was in screenplay form, none of the major New York houses wanted to take a chance on it. Why? Because they didn't know where to place it. Their marketing departments couldn't nail down the audience. It's an inspirational little gift book -- the audience is very broad. So, frustrated, because I really believed in the book, I took the ball into my own hands. Now, I have a gorgeous little book about heartbreak and healing, loving and letting go right at a time when books of that nature are in demand, no pun intended.;-) It is easy to point out all the pitfalls of this new frontier in publishing, and it serves writers well to be as knowledgeable as they can if they choose POD. But, to my mind, POD needs our support. It is a viable way for writers to take control and get their work out there. Yes, I feel a little like Daniella Boone out on the wild frontier, but so what? Why not participate in carving out a new future for writers? I'd rather do that than just sit around and swallow the way it is. I think what Ethan's publisher did was admirable. They anticipated a market, so they prepared for it. I had fits and starts when my book first came out...it took longer than I'd hoped for people to get copies, but then as sales went up, that changed. I think POD deserves a fair chance...and in order for it to succeed I think more serious writers, not fewer, are going to have to venture down this road.

Just found this forum, and believe I have something to contribute. I worked on the development team for Xerox, which created the Book-In-Time version of the POD process, now in place in the Bertelseman print empire. The formula itself is not a terribly difficult one, anyone with tech questions fire away.<p>

TO say that POD has been smudged with the dirt of 'vanity press' is an understatement, and there are lots of POD printers out there who are more than happy to collect a fee for outputting complete and utter crap. Until a POD publishing house that operates like a more traditional publishing house (nurtures authors, maintains personal relationships, takes chances, purchasesprinting rights up front) comes along and kicks commercial ass, nobody is going to take POD seriously as a venue.<p>

And lets not forget that if you do print yourself, you lose the sale of those 'first print' rights to anyone else, so make sure your piece is worth it.<p>

I know it can be done, but who is going to do it?<p>

Christopher

I was recently in a chatroom run by POD authors who I dilligently asked for help in understanding how much out of pocket expense I'd need to plan for IF I decided to go the POD route.

Any time I mentioned my biggest dilemma: no advance means no marketing money for me, the hounded me about how traditional publishing houses won't help me market, instead of answering my questions.

I left feeling totally negative about publishing at all. I want my book that I've slaved over for four years to be published (I've earned it!!!) but I don't want to make a bad decision when it comes to getting it out there.

I have yet to query publishing houses, but the agents I've queried have given me very nice (not form) rejection letters and two have requested the full manuscript (which they are reading now), so I don't feel as if I'm in a position of extreme urgency . . . yet.

However, this article was more informative than anything THEY told me, which I can guess is to be expected. I'm not ignorant of the pitfalls of any publishing endeavor, but I was really torked that all THEY wanted to do was bad mouth the traditional publishers (and me at times, I was called "Stupid") instead of answering my carefully worded questions. I know that regardless how my book gets published, that I will be responsible for the marketing (and I sort of look forward to that, if you can believe it) I simply wanted to know what financial commitment I needed to make, and they wouldn't answer.

SO, now that I've had a chance to rant about all that. I'd like to give my sincere appreciation to Jeffery Yamaguchi for telling it as he sees it. THANK YOU!

I think one has to be careful to distinguish between Publish-on-Demand and Print-On-Demand - unhappily they both have the same acronym. With print-on-demand the author becomes the publisher, hold all rights, sets prices, discounts, etc. Basically you just pay for a printing service. There's a set-up charge to create a digital form of your book, and then after that you pay for printing, with the cost going down somewhat as the number of books go up. You may also have to pay an archiving charge.

Of course, its then up to you what to do with the books. You are publisher now. You have to do the marketing. Everyone in the industry is going to assume you vanity published and they won't like it. Bookstores aren't going to be interested, etc., etc. It will be a tough uphill slug, but people have done it.

However, print-on-demand is very new. Right now it's tough to find anyone offering the service. But it is coming. I've got a copy of a book beside me printed on the new Xerox DocuTech Book Factory and it's of amazingly good quality. The trouble is, we're in a chicken and egg situation. There's not enough demand for a lot of over-the-counter print-on-demand bureaus yet. But it will come. Then the advantage of Print-o-d over Publishing-o-d should come to the fore. Publishers-o-d make their money off the author's set up costs. Printers will have to make it off printing services. And they won't last very long with 3 month turnarounds.
Of course, you'll still be on your own.
But you'll still be on your own.

Thanks Jeffrey, for your posts and your website with your "rant". I'm a poet (and have had success getting things published in journals), but have no books out yet. Friends and family have encouraged me, even pushed me, for years, to self-publish. I've been leery of that route. I know how the literary world sees vanity publishing, and I think POD falls into the same category. I do think it may work for some people, but yes, I should have a box of books at the ready to take to readings and be ready to give away in exchange for reviews, agreed. And the POD people I've seen on-line don't offer this. They don't even come close. What you and others have had to say has convinced me that my initial gut reaction to the idea was right: either wait, and keep doing what I've been doing, accumulate enough publishing credits to submit a manuscript to a publisher... OR go to a printer and do it myself.

I only wish those people out there who think that self-publishing is the answer would look a little more closely into it. I know people who've done it, and it can wreck your credentials as a writer. And nothing's worse to see than someone's book that's been slapped together in a form that's ugly, full of typos, or otherwise clearly not high-quality (and I've seen plenty of these, both from POD publishers and also the DIY people who don't have enough pride in their work to put out anything more than a stapled and photocopied thing that smacks of desperation).

Thanks for letting me spout off--

I am having a problem with 1stBooks, which suggested that my ms. would be published in January 2002, which has a contractual obligation to publish it in April 2002, and which now, May 29, is still not getting the job done, despite the fact that the editing that is left is extremely minor. Has anyone had similar problems with them?

I am a first-time novelist interested in self-publishing with a POD company. To date, I have done preliminary investigations into IUniverse, Xlibris, 1st Books, and several others. Although each company offers the same basic services, there are some significant variables. Could someone recommend which company you think is best, considering such variables as options, cost, quality, marketing, etc.? I would be very grateful for any insights you might share with me.

Yours—

Steven Griffel / sjgbooks@aol.com

hi..at 1stbooks.com after 8 months neither of my two books was finished...lots of promises, no action...many many editing mistakes on their part...I asked for a refund in late June and am still waiting for it...at iUniverse my simpler book was done in excellent quality within 2 months...Quick Topic daily digest <qtopic+11-k6XM65N7mWwTd@quicktopic.com> wrote:
>
< replied-to message removed by QT >

Teoti.com - And you thought you were going outside today -http://www.teoti.com

 Iuniverse offers copyediting services and gives the impression that if you pay the $949 you'll get it. I called them and inquired if they would provide spelling ,grammar and sentence structure corrections. The woman assured me that, that would be no problem. I thought it sounded wonderful and submitted my novel. Then came the surprise the review from a reviewer who apppeared to have not even read my work. Basically I lost the most points on the very subject I submitted the work for, "editing".The reviewer trashed my character for dating a man who committed a murder early in the first chapter. The reviewer clearly only skimmed through the story. The woman never dated the murderer, in fact she never met the man. I was then lowered to writers club. Sure they would refund me $600 and release my unedited work out into the world and pocket the $349. My other option was cancel and be refunded $749 and they would keep the $200 for the reviewer.The very reviewer who seemed to have not read my work. Scam? No, but a very crafty set-up to confuse a writer trying to break into the market. Beware of copy-editing because if you need too much of it, you won't get it!It cost me but I learned a great lesson.

 Iuniverse offers copyediting services and gives the impression that if you pay the $949 you'll get it. I called them and inquired if they would provide spelling ,grammar and sentence structure corrections. The woman assured me that, that would be no problem. I thought it sounded wonderful and submitted my novel. Then came the surprise the review from a reviewer who appeared to have not even read my work. Basically I lost the most points on the very subject I submitted the work for, "editing".The reviewer trashed my character for dating a man who committed a murder early in the first chapter. The reviewer clearly only skimmed through the story. The woman never dated the murderer, in fact she never met the man. I was then lowered to writers club. Sure they would refund me $600 and release my unedited work out into the world and pocket the $349. My other option was cancel and be refunded $749 and they would keep the $200 for the reviewer.The very reviewer who seemed to have not read my work. Scam? No, but a very crafty set-up to confuse a writer trying to break into the market. Beware of copy-editing because if you need too much of it, you won't get it!It cost me but I learned a great lesson.

Your critique of POD is right on target. If you look at the pricing structures at iUniverse.com, where I experimented with a book of poetry, you'll find that nobody--not distributors, not wholesalers, certainly not bookstores, will accept those terms. So unless you want to sell your books garage-sale style and hope that you are the next William Blake (that is, to be appreciated well after you are dead), forget it. I thought that I could sell the book via e-mail marketing, but you need something more saleable than a book of poetry to do that. (Big Surprise). Still, I dream.

hi...did you have problems with 1stBooks in particular? If so, what?

Edited by author 01-16-2003 11:54 AM
POD- now that's a topic. I have to agree with one thing stated here: POD is not for run of the mill authors. What it is good for is indie-publishing houses who wish to cut down on prices in the short run for a start-up company and then ordering xamount of books for distro themselves. I say this as a working memeber of a literary indie publishing house ( http://www.sixgallerypress.com ), that compared to some vanity publishing houses we went through (3 grand for 2,000 copies of a book, with a cover we didin't decide on and poor poor poor quality printing, and a general "cheap indie" look to it), POD was a very good option. At lightning source (a POD who works only through publishing houses, not individual authors) we were able to cut costs down nearly to minimal by building our own .pdf files to send to them. They then used these .pdf files to build some pretty nice looking books, very professional and etc. We would then order a print run of xamount of copies and build cheap promo galleys for sending out to reveiwers and book stores at office max (roughly 1$ a copy, not a bad price) so that it would get out there before the book is out. We would then sell and distro the books ourselves to the major retailers. By having the stores order in bulk in advanced (bulk copies = less money per book to spend) we were able to make a decent profit margin (30% per book for us, 10% for the authors going through us) per each book sold, as well as offer returns.

This on the other hand would be a bad idea for a single author to do. The route is cheap (in the short run), but extrememly pricey in the long run. That, and most POD printers that accept single author sales will take away almost ANY publishing rights the author has for the book for at least two years (including translation, electronic and etc rights). The main problem with an indie publishing house going through these channels is the nasty sting of the stigma attached to POD publishing. If your an honest press (as we are) that never ever charges a writer for publishing (and pays him an advance, albiet very small), and gives him roaylties, people will not see this. They will see it only as a vanity press. Which is very very very insulting.

Edited by author 01-31-2003 01:22 AM
I have published 3 books through iUniverse and have had no problems of any kind and I've been pleased with them. However, following in the footsteps of other POD publishers they have recently changed their fee structure with add ons that were originally included in the publishing plans at one time. Now the add ons cost extra. I'm afraid that iUniverse is getting focused more on the money than the writer. mailto:scott@scottfaithfull.net

Hi, I'm thinking of using POD to publish a book (unorthodox theological view and thus not high market demand) and wonder if anyone knows if there exists out in cyberspace an article or chart that actually recommends or warns about specific POD companies? I know of only one, and I question the criteria of the site's author for choices of good-better-best companies.

Thanks...

I highly recommend iUniverse. I strongly recommend against using 1stBooks Library. Rae Andre
QuickTopic daily digest <qtopic+11-k6XM65N7mWwTd@quicktopic.com> wrote:
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Bernie: Here are two good pages that I've found in my search. Please advise if you find more.


http://www.writing.com/main/showcase.php?t=pod.

http://www.hipiers.com/publishing.html#publishers

Going to a printer and doing a print run of 1,000 books is the worst possible advice you can give a self-published author.
Then what? Where are you going to warehouse 1,000 books? Remember books react badly to humidity, so the garage is out of the question. How are you going to move them? How much does it cost to ship each order?
Most POD companies offer many retail and wholesale distribution channels leaving you free of that hassle.
If you have ever had to create a website with a shopping cart, you will understand

You say that not accepting returns keeps books from getting on bookstore shelves, but this is not true. Many authors can work around this system by buying books at a discount and re-selling them to the bookstore with an agreement to accept the returns themselves. Note to authors: Bookstores CANNOT return signed copies.
Many POD companies not only work with self-published authors, but act as a printer and distributor for hundreds of traditional publishers. This tells me all I need to know about their quality. I ordered Newt Gingrich's new book through the retail site Booksurge, who is a POD and was very impressed with the quality of the book.

Self-publishing is not just an alternative to traditional publishing anymore. Many authors like Warren Adler, who wrote War of the Roses, have bought back their rights and self-published. For them it is a business decision. With the current technology in digital printing,
print on demand books are on most occasions printed on higher quality paper than traditionally published books.
Just go to the bookstore and look around. The mass-market paperbacks are printed on paper so porous that it could be used as a paper towel. I am not trying to be derogatory, just trying to prove the point that just because you had one bad experience, does not
mean that all POD companies are bad. Print on demand helps reduce storage and obsolescence costs for customers.
In the next few years, the digital revolution will arrive and just as we retired the VCR for the DVD player, POD will be the number one source of printing.

To claim POD = Vanity publishing shows a complete and utter lack of understanding of the value of POD. Sure, if you're buying one book at a time, the book will be expensive. But far cheaper than if you ordered one book from an offset printer. Suppose you're a small press that does print runs of 500 copies per book. The offset press still can't beat the POD price. You have to be printing about 1000 copies before it becomes cheaper to go offset. True, they aren't printed untiol they're bought, but they're bought by you, and then sold by you. And to maximize profit, you must buy as cheaply as possible. Unless you want 1000 copies or more, POD is your best buy. Just make sure you get one with the most up-to-date technology so the quality will be there.

There is one area where POD works big-time - Production of a textbook for a niche market too small to interest textbook publishers. My book with iUniverse on research methods cost me $400 and made me about $9000 (close to 3,000 copies) in 4 years. I have now produced a second edition.

To do this, you need: 1. A known market 2. A strong means of informing your market of the book's availability.

I have not seen any serious delivery problems emerge. Quality is a bit week, but textbook readers don't seem to mind if the content is there.

it seems that POD has different meanings. My publisher is a POD publisher, but I didn't have to spend a dime. I didn't see any problem with it. I am not sure how much POD authors make but whatever I make just cost me a couple of months of writing

To the guy that was looking for a POD publisher try Publishamerica.com

I've recently gone the POD route. I was well aware of the negative aspects of this type of publishing prior to plunking down my money. I'm with iUniverse, and I've yet to experience some of the claims made in the article. For instance:
One Author copy: I took advantage of a monthly promotion and received 35 copies, with no shipping fee.
You pay extra even if you provide your own cover art: Not true.
The printed books are poor quality: The paper should be white instead of the way-off white they use, but the cover, binding and layout are very good.
It can take a long time to get copies shipped to consumers: Based on reports from people who've purchased the book from the website, it takes one week for their copy to arrive. That's the good news. The bad news, is the almost $8.00 shipping fee. That's way too high. And the book itself is priced at $16.95 for a large format paperback. That too is high. I'd prefer a less expensive, standard sized paperback option. The trade paperback size significantly reduces the number of printed pages. It makes my 85,000 word manuscript look almost like a short story.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

I followed a web page by Jeffrey Yamaguchi to get here because he made no distinction between POD publishing and subsidy publishing. The fact is, nearly every academic press and every major trade publish some portion of their lists using POD, and these books have no problem getting into bookstores. The reason? The publishers offer the trade discount, accept returns, and promote the books.

I've been a trade author since 1997 and make a good living at it, but I started publishing my own books through Print on Demand a couple years ago. I simply got sick of the lousy contract terms and relationships the trades offer work-a-day authors. I went direct with Lightning Source, the same Print on Demand provider used by most of the academic presses and the big subsidy presses. My first year I netted around $15K, this year it's around $30K. I offer a short-discount, so I don't get into stores.

I felt so strongly about the whole thing that I wrote a book on the subject (what else would an author do), but around half of it is online on my website, included a detailed case study of Lightning Source Print-on-Demand worked out for my first book; costs sales, etc.

http://www.fonerbooks.com/pod.htm

I'm not suggesting that it will work for anybody, you have to be able to promote your books, or you'll never sell any. The value of being on bookstore shelves is highly overrated. Almost two thirds of my sales came through Ingram distribution, customers special ordering my books through their local store after my website or word-of-mouth got them interested.

Morris

I am wondering... has anyone used lulu.com? If so, what do you think of it?

Yes, what has anyone heard about lulu.com

I haven't used Lulu but I heard they are quick and their books look decent. I think they go through Lightning Soource, though I am not sure about that. Ive been using a small printer but going to try Lightning Source.
http://www.MSPmedia.net

A few years ago I wrote a 180-page technical manual and decided to self publish. Being clueless I started in the yellow pages and got prices varying by 400% from lowest to highest. Eventually I found a local printer with a web press and had about 2500 copies printed for about $2 each in a perfect binding, with a color cover. Everyone thought I was nuts when the truck pulled up with a couple of pallets of books, but we sold them in a bit over a year for $15, with a wholesale discount. Over the next 8 years we did four more printings and the printing cost and sales price went up a bit each time. After selling over 10,000 copies a company wanted to license the right to print it themselves and pay us a royalty and we were only selling a few hundred a year so I licensed the rights away.

So perhaps this would be an option today - find a printer who does catalogs, phone books, etc on a web press and see if they will work with you. It worked out fine for me.

Coming *really* late to the discussion here, but I just discovered NoMediaKings through today's (11/25/05) writeup in BoingBoing.net.

Jeffrey Yamaguchi is not alone in claiming that the money authors spend to buy copies of their own book disappears into the void. But he's overlooking a basic economic fact: most of that money returns to the author (minus the POD printer's cut) along with the quarterly royalty check.

I am a full-time published freelance writer who gave up trying to interest publishers in my novel MSS and will be going the POD route. I've read just about everything on the subject that's out there, pro and con, and I haven't seen anyone -- critics, supporters, and people considering their options -- point out the above. But I think it's a critically important part of the argument in favor of POD.

My $0.02 (after printing costs),

Paul
http://patriot.net/~plagasse/

Edited by author 11-28-2005 11:34 AM
To respond to Jeffrey Yamaguchi and Trula, I work for Lulu.com, a print-on-demand provider, but I wasn't hired until after publishing a book with them and feeling VERY satisfied with the results. Regarding Yamaguchi's umbrella-ed slander against every POD provider, he is mistaken on several points when it comes to Lulu. He may be right about iUniverse, but publishing with Lulu is free. So no $99+ start-up cost. If creators want marketing, design, or editing aid, they do have to buy it, but many authors happily write their own press releases and edit/design their book themselves to avoid extra cost. Perhaps it makes more sense to feel slighted when $99+ gets you no help with marketing or design, but with Lulu, publishing is free, so the people providing these extra services must be paid somehow. Creators also have the option of buying an ISBN. Yes, we do go through Lightning Source, which feeds books to databases like Ingram and Baker & Taylor, and then those databases sell books to retailers like Amazon, B & N, etc. But many creators sell loads of copies through our online store, and feel no need for an ISBN.

Our products are not crap. They are beautiful, professional products with color covers and your choice of binding. We offer hardback and paperback printing of books of various sizes, in addition to CDs and calendars. Our printed images look crisp and impressive.

Lulu was founded by Bob Young, a co-founder and former CEO of Red Hat (ever heard of Open Source?). Bob founded Lulu after having so many extra copies of a book he self-published that he actually built a desk and chair out of them. From what I've heard, this sort of ludicrious surplus is common with most users of vanity presses. With Lulu, buying 500 copies of your own book might be more expensive, but why do you personally need 500 copies? Our buyers browse Lulu.com and order books directly. Printing the book takes 3 days, shipping it takes around a week (and much faster if you want to pay a couple more bucks), and the packaging is VERY safe. Also, until the end of the holidays, we offer free domestic and international shipping for orders between $25-$100 (ground home delivery/supersaver shipping). Feel free to email me directly if you have further questions (lmoseley@lulu.com). Again, our website is www.Lulu.com. Take the Publishing Flash Tour and realize how easy it is.

Just briefly -- I published my non-fiction work with Page Free Publishing. The quality of the book was fine, and the cost was very reasonable. They were a little beyond deadline on the final product, and I've heard the same about them elsewhere.

Their pricing is outstanding. Overall I was very pleased.

While I found Yamaguchi's article to be informative, I don't think it presents both sides equally. Like anything, there's the positive and negative aspects. 1st Books, Xilibris, iUniverse etc. have had lots of negative press, but that isn't the reputation of ALL PODs! I've had great service from Infinity Publishin (bbotw.com) who DOES offer returns on books
and store discounts, to take care of the major probs with POD...so it really depends on how you shop around...I also came across Lulu, which looks fantastic, but I found their website a bit cluttered, but I'll check it out again when I'm ready...


Basically, I feel if you're serious about your craft, have promotional venues in mind and are computer savvy, POD is a GREAT way to go..vanity publishing is often MUCH more expensive & risky
and traditional publishing, with it's loooong, communicative process, is purely for the ego--why? Because so many feel that's the ONLY way to validate yourself as an author. I disagree. I published my book when I just turned 25 and sold 1500+ within a few months--and I really didn't have the means (or time) to go all out with promotion! For myself, my validation comes from people telling me how awesome my book is--how it came to exist really doesn't matter, as long as it's my best work, I'm communicating & others appreciate it.

So, shop around, be cautious and realistic and "your way" will make itself very clear to you! Good luck :)

"I am wondering... has anyone used lulu.com? If so, what do you think of it?"

I published my novel through Lulu.com and I was immensely satisfied with them. The forums and FAQs were helpful with any problems I had while putting the book together and their service is very prompt. When I published my novel, I ordered a proof and it was delivered within a week. I've heard bad things about POD products, that they look unprofessional and sloppy, but I didn't have that problem at all. My book looks very professional.

I purchased an ISBN for $100, but if I chose not to, I wouldn't have spent a dime and could have just as easily sold it through their website.

The biggest problem I have with potentially publishing my book is the environmental aspects. I recently saw a program on forestry for Woodpulp in Tasmania that was horrifying...

Until the 19th century 85% of paper was made without Woodpulp. Flax, hemp and rice have been used since the dawn of time... There is no reason why we should be publishing with woodpulp and yet trying to find a publisher that doesn't is next to impossible today...